One More CLC Stockton Question

[CC1]

A thought occurred to me while watching the webcast of Christian Life Center Stockton this morning. During the announcements they announced their Sunday evening service was at their other location (the old church campus). I knew they had their midweek service at the older smaller building but didn't realize they also had a Sunday night service there.

Based on the limited view I had this morning of the congregation and the views I have had of it before it appears to me that the new building is mostly empty on Sunday morning. I have been told it seats around 5,000 and it looks like at most there are 1,500 people there. If I recall correctly the old sanctuary seated about 3,000 people? Somebody who knows please confirm or correct me.

In any case it appears that the Sunday morning congregation would easily fit in the old sanctuary. Unless I am wrong in that thought my question is why doesn't the church sell the new Sanctuary and property if it is not needed? Clearly they have not seen the growth they anticipated when it was built years ago. The cost of operating and maintaining two large locations must be consdierable.

[seguidordejesus]

Originally Posted by CC1

A thought occurred to me while watching the webcast of Christian Life Center Stockton this morning. During the announcements they announced their Sunday evening service was at their other location (the old church campus). I knew they had their midweek service at the older smaller building but didn't realize they also had a Sunday night service there.

Based on the limited view I had this morning of the congregation and the views I have had of it before it appears to me that the new building is mostly empty on Sunday morning. I have been told it seats around 5,000 and it looks like at most there are 1,500 people there. If I recall correctly the old sanctuary seated about 3,000 people? Somebody who knows please confirm or correct me.

In any case it appears that the Sunday morning congregation would easily fit in the old sanctuary. Unless I am wrong in that thought my question is why doesn't the church sell the new Sanctuary and property if it is not needed? Clearly they have not seen the growth they anticipated when it was built years ago. The cost of operating and maintaining two large locations must be consdierable.

Ego?

[Lafon]

Ego? I want to think not, rather "spiritual foresight"!

The prophet Joel, speaking for God, stated that He "hath given you the former rain moderately."

MODERATELY implies that which is average in size or amount, neither too much nor too little.

If it be that either the day of Pentecost when the Holy Ghost was first given, or the events that transpired at the beginning of the 20th Century, represented the "former rain" being given of God only MODERATELY, and seeing Joel prophesied of a "latter rain" that is yet to come to pass, then I, like many others, hold to the belief that as the time of the end draws ever near, we are to witness a "revival" unparalleled in the history of the church!

Is not the opposite of MODERATELY that of an ABUNDANCE?

Albeit I am a proponent of what is commonly called "Home Churches," nevertheless I can foresee a need for large facilities to accommodate a mighty "revival" of the church, especially in such a large metropolitan area as Stockton and the adjoining communities. Therefore my suggestion would be that they do all that is possible to retain possession of the larger facility, perhaps "moth-balling" it until needed.

REVIVAL is coming! The "harvest" is so great, and we MUST continually pray to the Lord of the harvest that He send even more workers to bring that "harvest" into the storehouse (aka, the church) while there is yet time!

[Sean]

When Elder Haney decided to build it, he went to headquarters and turned it over to his son Nathaniel.

If elder Haney would not have went to headquarters and stayed there, the church would have probably doubled.

The old sanctuary seats possibly 1800 when packed....

We were there over 20 years and helped in several building projects.

The problem I have with Nathaniel is he is not diplomatic with those with differing viewpoints. He said one too many times.."if you dont agree with me, just leave"....well many folks JUST LEFT!

Elder Haney would be diplomatic and fight for your allegiance, even come to your house...also, he never forgot your name, no matter who you were.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Sean

When Elder Haney decided to build it, he went to headquarters and turned it over to his son Nathaniel.

If elder Haney would not have went to headquarters and stayed there, the church would have probably doubled.

The old sanctuary seats possibly 1800 when packed....

We were there over 20 years and helped in several building projects.

The problem I have with Nathaniel is he is not diplomatic with those with differing viewpoints. He said one too many times.."if you dont agree with me, just leave"....well many folks JUST LEFT!

Elder Haney would be diplomatic and fight for your allegiance, even come to your house...also, he never forgot your name, no matter who you were.

You are not the first person with a long time association with CLC who has pointed out that Nate does not have his fathers people skills and that has cost them dearly in members. I had great respect for what Kenneth Haney accomplished in Stockton with the church, Bible College, and radio stations. I also agree that if he had stayed and not gone to HQ the ministry would have continued its trajectory of growth and the new sanctuary would make perfect sense.

[StillStanding]

I visited CLC on a Sunday morning on Mother's Day 2014. The building is humongous, but looks empty with even 1,500 or so people in it. In retrospect, it appears that they got caught up in the large auditorium faze of modern Christianity. Like many others, they get burned when there was new leadership.

A smarter move would have been to build a new build that seated 2,000 and had two services on Sunday morning when they needed it. Now, it get filled only a couple times a year when there is a national conference or district camp meeting.

I've been told that it's a nice building (I thought it looked nice, but average) in a bad area of town. Good luck selling an auditorium that large!

[Sean]

There were many road blocks in the way of building it before it was started. Bro. Haney halted it from starting with only a bare piece of land in possession for years. Preachers started coming along and "prophecying" that God wants it built over the pulpit, then Bro. Haney listened to them and pushed to get it going "by faith"....what a headache it was and financially still is.
I will never get involved in another building program as long as I live...LOL

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Sean

There were many road blocks in the way of building it before it was started. Bro. Haney halted it from starting with only a bare piece of land in possession for years. Preachers started coming along and "prophecying" that God wants it built over the pulpit, then Bro. Haney listened to them and pushed to get it going "by faith"....what a headache it was and financially still is.
I will never get involved in another building program as long as I live...LOL

Our church leases our space and is debt free. I would rather own but our pastor absolutely does not want the burden and pressure of a mortgage payment affecting anything he does. I think if we had an opportunity to buy our location (it is not for sale) and the price was right he might do it but then again he might not.

[Sean]

That's smart...

I think a congregation should have multiple services until its an easy move financially.

The idea of "build it and they will come" puts undue financial stress on the saints, which is unbiblical.

Building an auditorium is not our problem. We should just bring folks into the Kingdom and let folks give as they wish. The more folks that are saved, the more they will receive for their projects.

It just stands to reason.

[Scott Pitta]

Financial pressure on church boards should be avoided at all costs.