those who proclaim the gospel

[mizpeh]

In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel. 1 Cor 9:14


When did the Lord command that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel? Is Paul taking about the following words of Christ?

Matt 10:9-10 Take no gold, or silver, or copper in your belts, no bag for your journey, or two tunics, or sandals, or a staff; for laborers deserve their food.

Luke 10:4-7 4 Carry no purse, no bag, no sandals; and greet no one on the road. 5 Whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace to this house!’ 6 And if anyone is there who shares in peace, your peace will rest on that person; but if not, it will return to you. 7 Remain in the same house, eating and drinking whatever they provide, for the laborer deserves to be paid.

[Abiding Now]

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel. 1 Cor 9:14


When did the Lord command that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel? Is Paul taking about the following words of Christ?

Matt 10:9-10 Take no gold, or silver, or copper in your belts, no bag for your journey, or two tunics, or sandals, or a staff; for laborers deserve their food.

Luke 10:4-7 4 Carry no purse, no bag, no sandals; and greet no one on the road. 5 Whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace to this house!’ 6 And if anyone is there who shares in peace, your peace will rest on that person; but if not, it will return to you. 7 Remain in the same house, eating and drinking whatever they provide, for the laborer deserves to be paid.

Looking carefully at and comparing Paul's words of I Corinthians 9:14, that is, alone and apart from his statements which preceded it, as for me, I can understand how it is many have concluded that he COULD have been stating that those who function as Pastors and Teachers in an assembly of saints should be financially compensated.

However, when one considers his words of 9:14 in view of that which he had just said, that is, describing his functions as an apostle, and THEN compare it to our Lord's instructions to those whom He was speaking to, that is, the apostles as well as the 70 disciples whom He sent OUT to prepare the way before Him, it is possible to recognize that Paul was NOT referring to himself as a member of a paid ministerial staff of a local assembly of saints, as is commonly taught.

Indeed, the function of an apostle, who is in every sense of the word a Church Planter, differs significantly from that of a Pastor and Teacher. An apostle is, in essence, and by the very nature of his assigned function, one who constantly travels from one location to another, teaching others about the saving gospel of Jesus Christ, and in the process of doing that becomes the FOUNDER of a "new work," appointing others to build on what he had begun. He is NOT, nor does he ever become the Pastor or Teacher in that "new work" which he begins, unless, of course, he chooses to cease being an apostle and is appointed to that function by the members of that particular assembly.

An apostle, because of their constant movement from one locale to another in the performance of their responsibility, are not gainfully employed in a secular job of some kind, therefore their welfare and livelihood is dependent, as was the apostles and the 70 disciples, upon the charity and good will of those to whom they have ministered the gospel.

This is also what our Lord was stating to the apostles and the 70 disciples whom He sent out to prepare the way before Him. Paul, of his own accord, chose otherwise, for by his own words, he did not want for any to accuse him of delivering the gospel for "filthy lucre' sake," therefore in each locale he sought to pay his own expenses by relying upon his expertise as a tentmaker - see also Titus 1:11.

Because Pastors and Teachers are those who are perform such functions, being chosen by the other members of a local assembly to do so, and are, in fact, selected from among them, then they are already established members of the community where they live and where the assembly is located. As such they already are gainfully employed in a secular job of their choosing, therefore no need exists for them to be financially compensated for the functions which they perform within that assembly.

This is the manner in which I understand BOTH Paul's words of I Corinthians 9:14, for they align perfectly with those of our Lord as noted in Matthew 10:9-10 and Luke 10:4-7, although I suspect that not many PAID Pastors and Teachers would agree.

[shazeep]

nice

[Abiding Now]

They always told me, "Poor preach, Poor pay".

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

They always told me, "Poor preach, Poor pay".

Sounds like something you would do to a waitress.

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Sounds like something you would do to a waitress.

Yeah, them too.

[good samaritan]

I will not use scripture at present to make any points only common sense. If someone serves me I want to show some type of recompense if nothing else, at least appreciation. I don't have to have a verse and scripture to cause me to want be a blessing to someone who prays and visits me and my family when we are sick, mentors me with personal decisions, studies and prays for messages to help me in my walk with God, manages and oversees most of church operations(marries and buries), etc. As a pastor it may be distasteful for me to post on this thread, but I really I am not meaning to be self serving. The question is why would people not want to bless?

I would rather not receive anything from anyone if they did not give it from a heart of love. I understand if you feel like your local elders are hirelings. The thing you should ask yourself, have they given me good reasons to feel this way? If so, you probably need to find a church family with people you can trust. If there is no reason for your feelings then you might consider that there might be something evil trying to work on you.

When it comes to giving it is legalistic to have to have a scripture and verse to dictate who and where you give. Follow the Holy Ghost and see where it leads you. Yes I do know that there is probably some lazy's out there that are mooching from a position and one day they will receive their reward. As for me I want to send up memorials before God in and outside of the church. As a pastor I still want to bless others (if I can) who labor in Gods' kingdom. I am sure you can disprove any responsibility of giving if that is your desire though.

[shazeep]

very nice. i doubt many begrudge giving; it is when it becomes taking that people dislike, surely.

ok wow, and did you get a triple helping of Grace or what? I'm curious if you had a rough childhood? ty

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I will not use scripture at present to make any points only common sense. If someone serves me I want to show some type of recompense if nothing else, at least appreciation. I don't have to have a verse and scripture to cause me to want be a blessing to someone who prays and visits me and my family when we are sick, mentors me with personal decisions, studies and prays for messages to help me in my walk with God, manages and oversees most of church operations(marries and buries), etc. As a pastor it may be distasteful for me to post on this thread, but I really I am not meaning to be self serving. The question is why would people not want to bless?

I would rather not receive anything from anyone if they did not give it from a heart of love. I understand if you feel like your local elders are hirelings. The thing you should ask yourself, have they given me good reasons to feel this way? If so, you probably need to find a church family with people you can trust. If there is no reason for your feelings then you might consider that there might be something evil trying to work on you.

When it comes to giving it is legalistic to have to have a scripture and verse to dictate who and where you give. Follow the Holy Ghost and see where it leads you. Yes I do know that there is probably some lazy's out there that are mooching from a position and one day they will receive their reward. As for me I want to send up memorials before God in and outside of the church. As a pastor I still want to bless others (if I can) who labor in Gods' kingdom. I am sure you can disprove any responsibility of giving if that is your desire though.

You will NEVER hear it said by me that voluntarily reimbursing an elder of the church, be he/she a pastor, teacher, evangelist, missionary, etc., for any function which they might perform which, in the performance thereof, it entails a financial burden or "out of pocket" expense to themselves, that I would refuse to contribute monies for such reimbursement. The performance of such functions as you've mentioned, especially those wherein it involves a financial burden on the one performing that function, is worthy of being compensated, especially by those who are the recipients of such services.

Where I have a problem with finances insofar as church related functions are concerned, is when any member that is chosen from among the others of a local assembly of saints to function as a pastor or teacher, chooses not to be employed in some field of secular labor, but instead chooses to demand financial compensation from the other members of that assembly for the services he renders. IMHO such as that is using the sacred written Oracles of God for "filthy lucre's sake."

What we find today is a church where a group of individuals are guilty of usurping the headship of the church from Christ Jesus, installing themselves as financially compensated priests after the tradition of Roman Catholicism, establishing themselves as a separate caste known as the Clergy, and demanding that the so-called Laity regularly contribute 10% of their finances for their support. All of this is done under the threat of eternal damnation should any disobey, for they are told that in that disobedience they are robbing God.

When will we awaken to the truth of this matter and return to using our financial giving for the same purposes as it was practiced by the. Church we read about in the New Testament, that is, taking care of the less fortunate members of the church, the widows, and the fatherless?