Officer Involved Shooting in St. Louis City

n david · #1 08-21-2014, 12:21 PM

A few days ago, in one of the several Ferguson threads, I posted a report of an officer involved shooting in St. Louis City.

The story was a man went into a store with a knife and was threatening people, then he confronted the police who responded, charged them and was shot to death.

There is a video from an eyewitness who recorded the confrontation and shooting.

WARNING: Although this was taken from about 25ft away or more and you can't see blood or anything, it's a disturbing video.

http://youtu.be/j-P54MZVxMU

n david · #2 08-21-2014, 12:30 PM

Now, from the reports coming out of the Michael Brown shooting -- how Officer Wilson was severely injured before shooting MB. I'm more disturbed by this officer involved shooting than I am of MB's shooting.

This man clearly wanted suicide by cop. He's yelling at the two officers to shoot him, so, clearly he wants to die.

He has a knife, which can't be that big because his hand was holding it in his pocket.

He doesn't charge the police, but he walks towards them with the knife. (Which you can't see in the video because it's too far away and the knife is too small.

The officers warned him, then emptied their clips into him.

And the part which troubles me the most is after he's on the ground and appears to be dead, another 2-3 rounds are fired.

Why?

Why, after already in the middle of riots over an officer involved shooting, did these two officers decide to blast this guy?

Do they not have tasers? Surely, they could have used some other non-lethal means to subdue this guy?

Now I know MB was unarmed and this guy had a knife...but MB inflicted major injury to the officer, this guy had what, a pocketknife?

If I'm protesting anything, it's this shooting. They could have used non-lethal means to subdue him, but instead just shot him. Then when he was down and likely dead, one of them pumped 2 or 3 more bullets in him.

I'm saddened by this. Moreso than the MB shooting.

Originalist · #3 08-21-2014, 07:39 PM

A man threatens people with a knife. The same man then threatens police with a knife. Instead of surrendering, he tries to attack the police. They kill him.

And the problem is?

Originalist · #4 08-21-2014, 07:45 PM

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. (Romans 13:3-4)

What we have witnessed these past few days is the wrath of God on evil doers who probably had a chance to repent at some point and chose not to.

n david · #5 08-22-2014, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

A man threatens people with a knife. The same man then threatens police with a knife. Instead of surrendering, he tries to attack the police. They kill him.

And the problem is?

The problem is he wasn't threatening the police. In fact, he was yelling for them to shoot him, so the only one he was threatening was himself.

As far as trying to "attack the police," I've watched the video a few times and can't see any attack. He walked towards the police. He doesn't run, doesn't charge. He walked.

They could have subdued without deadly force, but they chose to kill him. IMO that was wrong. I'm sure the PD will say it was justified and clear the officers. This shooting is just more disturbing to me than the MB shooting, where the officer was actually in danger and attacked and had to resort to deadly force.

KeptByTheWord · #6 08-22-2014, 10:49 AM

We just had a shooting here in the past month in our local area that troubles me. A husband had taken his wife to the ER because she was having a severe meltdown or some kind of psychotic flareup. As they got out of the car to try to get her to the ER, she was waving a knife, and so the police were called. Different ones tried to talk to her but to no avail, and then she ran at the police brandishing the knife. She was shot and killed in front of her husband and ER personnel who were trying to help her. There is a huge outcry about this. Could they not have used a taser on her or at the very least shot her leg or arm to stop her from advancing? Why did they have to kill her? She needed psychiatric help, and her husband had brought her to the ER for help, instead she was killed.

I agree NDavid... the use of force by police as more stories come in, is seeming to come to a place where they are ready to shoot and kill, and ask questions later, when it is too late.

n david · #7 08-22-2014, 12:12 PM

I read an article on CNN where the St. Louis City PD Chief had a press conference to defend the officers. He was asked about tasers and said they're not reliable and if they miss the target, it puts the officers at risk. He also said that a knife or any sharp edge weapon is considered a threat within 21ft and officers are cleared to protect themselves.

There were two officers. Surely one could have tried a taser with the other backing him up.

Life has so little value any more.

Sasha · #8 08-22-2014, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

Now, from the reports coming out of the Michael Brown shooting -- how Officer Wilson was severely injured before shooting MB. I'm more disturbed by this officer involved shooting than I am of MB's shooting.

This man clearly wanted suicide by cop. He's yelling at the two officers to shoot him, so, clearly he wants to die.

He has a knife, which can't be that big because his hand was holding it in his pocket.

He doesn't charge the police, but he walks towards them with the knife. (Which you can't see in the video because it's too far away and the knife is too small.

The officers warned him, then emptied their clips into him.

And the part which troubles me the most is after he's on the ground and appears to be dead, another 2-3 rounds are fired.

Why?

Why, after already in the middle of riots over an officer involved shooting, did these two officers decide to blast this guy?

Do they not have tasers? Surely, they could have used some other non-lethal means to subdue this guy?

Now I know MB was unarmed and this guy had a knife...but MB inflicted major injury to the officer, this guy had what, a pocketknife?

If I'm protesting anything, it's this shooting. They could have used non-lethal means to subdue him, but instead just shot him. Then when he was down and likely dead, one of them pumped 2 or 3 more bullets in him.

I'm saddened by this. Moreso than the MB shooting.

I'm sure it's easy to judge from the sidelines and from hindsight, but when you are the one who has a violent person coming at you, threatening your life, you probably aren't thinking, geez, should I taze him, use pepper spray, or just shoot him? If I shoot him, how many times should I pull the trigger?

It's been said that a perp with a weapon can attack within 21 feet before the officer can draw his gun and shoot. They are trained to kill. I don't expect anything less, especially if it's my husband who's life is on the line.

If you decide to taze him, you better hope the barbs find their mark. You also better hope he's fazed by your tazing.

If he was coming at your wife, are you really going to be concerned with the outcome, other than your wife coming home with you at the end of the day? Are you willing to scrutinize the officers action to kill the man who was about to attack her?

Sasha · #9 08-22-2014, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

I read an article on CNN where the St. Louis City PD Chief had a press conference to defend the officers. He was asked about tasers and said they're not reliable and if they miss the target, it puts the officers at risk. He also said that a knife or any sharp edge weapon is considered a threat within 21ft and officers are cleared to protect themselves.

There were two officers. Surely one could have tried a taser with the other backing him up.

Life has so little value any more.

You say that, but I'm thinking there wasn't time to discuss a plan at that point in time. Perhaps someone in the crowd could have distracted that black man while the cops discussed a plan of action.

n david · #10 08-23-2014, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasha

I'm sure it's easy to judge from the sidelines and from hindsight, but when you are the one who has a violent person coming at you, threatening your life, you probably aren't thinking, geez, should I taze him, use pepper spray, or just shoot him? If I shoot him, how many times should I pull the trigger?

Did you watch the video. He walked towards them. He never threatened to kill them. He said nothing threatening to them, except to ask them to shoot him.

Yeah, he was soooo violent. smh. People walked by him while he paced around on the sidewalk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasha

It's been said that a perp with a weapon can attack within 21 feet before the officer can draw his gun and shoot. They are trained to kill. I don't expect anything less, especially if it's my husband who's life is on the line.

21ft is a lot of room. They're also trained to deescalate a situation. And they're supposed to serve and protect. But these days they'd rather just kill someone. It's easier and takes less time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasha

If you decide to taze him, you better hope the barbs find their mark. You also better hope he's fazed by your tazing.

That's a valid concern, but still worth a try.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasha

If he was coming at your wife, are you really going to be concerned with the outcome, other than your wife coming home with you at the end of the day? Are you willing to scrutinize the officers action to kill the man who was about to attack her?

That is completely different than what happened here. He wasn't coming at anyone except armed police officers. So your extreme analogy here is off base.