Two Big SCOTUS Decisions Came Today

n david · #1 06-30-2014, 10:54 AM

#1 - Hobby Lobby vs obummercare. 5-4 decision in favor of Hobby Lobby. The majority stated that the birth control mandate violates the Religious Freedom Restoration Act and therefore cannot be imposed.

I was nervous on this, since Roberts voted to uphold the law a couple years ago. Not surprised by the 5-4 split, since that's the way the court is between conservatives and liberals.

#2 Illinois Unions are having a really bad Monday after SCOTUS ruled against them forcing home healthcare worker into the unions. The IL unions were able to receive a massive amount of dues from this scam. This is great news, and furthers the momentum going now against unions!

Pressing-On · #2 06-30-2014, 01:31 PM

#1 - It's not that great of a ruling. It simply is saying that publicly traded companies are not part of the analysis, which means it discourages religious business owners from going public. And finally, Hobby Lobby doesn't pay the mandate, but their taxes will continue to pay for contraceptive coverage.

n david · #3 06-30-2014, 04:58 PM

Better than a ruling against HL. Is it a perfect ruling, nope, but I'll be happy and focus on the positives anyway.

Pressing-On · #4 06-30-2014, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

Better than a ruling against HL. Is it a perfect ruling, nope, but I'll be happy and focus on the positives anyway.

While you are focused on happy thoughts, focus on the reality as well.

n david · #5 06-30-2014, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

#1 - It's not that great of a ruling. It simply is saying that publicly traded companies are not part of the analysis, which means it discourages religious business owners from going public. And finally, Hobby Lobby doesn't pay the mandate, but their taxes will continue to pay for contraceptive coverage.

I've read a few different articles, including SCOTUSBLOG and haven't read either of the above. Where did you get your info?

n david · #6 06-30-2014, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

While you are focused on happy thoughts, focus on the reality as well.

I am...five Justices ruled that HL has religious rights as a corporation, and because of such, does not have to offer or pay for the contraceptive coverage mandated by bummercare.

Pressing-On · #7 06-30-2014, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

I've read a few different articles, including SCOTUSBLOG and haven't read either of the above. Where did you get your info?

From Ben Shapiro.

n david · #8 06-30-2014, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

From Ben Shapiro.

WADR to Shapiro, in a 2000 study, 90% of all businesses in the US were considered "closely held." If anything, that percentage has either stayed or even inched higher. This means the ruling affects a lot of businesses. More than what Shapiro seems to think.

WSJ Article

As far as the tax issue, I'm still seeing that the businesses are not paying for this. Perhaps as individual taxpayers, such as you and I, they are paying for this, but not their businesses.

Again, it's not a perfect ruling, but it's one which we can be happy with. Remember, just a couple years ago, Chief Justice Roberts gave obama another term in office by voting with the liberals to keep obamacare in effect.

Pressing-On · #9 06-30-2014, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

WADR to Shapiro, in a 2000 study, 90% of all businesses in the US were considered "closely held." If anything, that percentage has either stayed or even inched higher. This means the ruling affects a lot of businesses. More than what Shapiro seems to think.

WSJ Article

As far as the tax issue, I'm still seeing that the businesses are not paying for this. Perhaps as individual taxpayers, such as you and I, they are paying for this, but not their businesses.

I thought that was obvious it would be the individual taxpayer. The individual is still paying, mandate or no. So, where was the big party you were wanting to throw over the ruling?

Quote:

Again, it's not a perfect ruling, but it's one which we can be happy with. Remember, just a couple years ago, Chief Justice Roberts gave obama another term in office by voting with the liberals to keep obamacare in effect.

No, not perfect, because the Justices are saying that religious people have different rights. That is not something our Founding Fathers wanted for the American people under our Constitution.

Where does freedom come into play here? If I don't attend service, I have to pay for the contraceptions? Who is going to be monitoring that?

We are loosing our constitutional liberties a piece at a time. 5/4 vote? That is not good enough.

n david · #10 06-30-2014, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I thought that was obvious it would be the individual taxpayer. The individual is still paying, mandate or no. So, where was the big party you were wanting to throw over the ruling?

I'm still throwing a party about it. You and Shapiro can sulk with the Dems. I've known about the individual tax issue, and I don't believe that was part of this case. Why act surprised that we, as individuals, are still paying for it. AFAIK, there hasn't been a challenge on individuals paying for BC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

No, not perfect, because the Justices are saying that religious people have different rights. That is not something our Founding Fathers wanted for the American people under our Constitution.

No, it's saying that the Religious Freedom Restoration Act applies to not only non-profit religious organizations, but also to for-profit corporations. May not be a big deal to you, but I'm glad about it. Again, 90% of businesses in America (in 2000) would be affected by this legislation. And Ginsberg is worried there could be an even broader application to even more businesses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Where does freedom come into play here? If I don't attend service, I have to pay for the contraceptions? Who is going to be monitoring that?

We are loosing our constitutional liberties a piece at a time. 5/4 vote? That is not good enough.

Did you really expect Kagan, Sotomayer, Breyer or Ginsberg to vote for HL on this? Of course it's going to be a 5-4 vote! C'mon, you talk about focusing on reality. There's no way those 4 are going to vote for anything conservative or religious.

You and Shapiro aren't going to spoil this good moment. Was the war won, no, but one battle was for HL and the others. I'm going to take a moment and celebrate it with them.