Jesus....Not God?

Ev. Duane Williams · #1 06-03-2014, 08:11 PM

I haven't been on in about, forever, but I was wondering about this new doctrine (not really new) cropping up among Apostolics that Jesus was just a man and not God, and this "profound epiphany" solves all the tough questions Trinitarians throw at Oneness folks. How pervasive is this new wind of doctrine among the rank and file, and is there any effort underway for something to be done about it?

FlamingZword · #2 06-03-2014, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams

I haven't been on in about, forever, but I was wondering about this new doctrine (not really new) cropping up among Apostolics that Jesus was just a man and not God, and this "profound epiphany" solves all the tough questions Trinitarians throw at Oneness folks. How pervasive is this new wind of doctrine among the rank and file, and is there any effort underway for something to be done about it?

Jesus is definitly God
Isaiah 9:6
"The Mighty God"
Thomas
"My Lord and my God"
1 Tim 3:16
and so on.
The earliest archeological discoveries call Jesus "God"

Sean · #3 06-03-2014, 10:07 PM

Duane, I believe Jesus is Almighty God, but not exactly like the organization teaches it. For instance, I dont teach the DUAL NATURE concept anymore after teaching it for about 20 years. There are a variety of slight variances with most folks' description of the Godhead. David Bernard helps describe some of these differing positions in a book I reviewed online.

Here on AFF, I dont think anyone agrees exactly the same...LOL

Praxeas · #4 06-04-2014, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams

I haven't been on in about, forever, but I was wondering about this new doctrine (not really new) cropping up among Apostolics that Jesus was just a man and not God, and this "profound epiphany" solves all the tough questions Trinitarians throw at Oneness folks. How pervasive is this new wind of doctrine among the rank and file, and is there any effort underway for something to be done about it?

I don't see it solving anything since it undeifies Jesus and has to spin all the evidence saying Jesus is God.

BTW It's called Unitarianism

Praxeas · #5 06-04-2014, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Duane, I believe Jesus is Almighty God, but not exactly like the organization teaches it. For instance, I dont teach the DUAL NATURE concept anymore after teaching it for about 20 years. There are a variety of slight variances with most folks' description of the Godhead. David Bernard helps describe some of these differing positions in a book I reviewed online.

Here on AFF, I dont think anyone agrees exactly the same...LOL

So Jesus isn't fully God and fully man? Then what is he? Just God? Just a man?

Michael The Disciple · #6 06-04-2014, 06:02 AM

Sounds like the problem is that many Apostolics probably have never really "got it" that Jesus was and still is a MAN while being God at the same time.

Notice this scripture:

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 1 Tim. 2:5

Is there only one God? Yes its Jesus! Is there only one mediator between God and men? Yes its the MAN Christ Jesus!

The Christ is both God and man.

This faith used to be called "Jesus Only". We need to get back to that.

Sean · #7 06-04-2014, 07:12 AM

Prax, I spoke to SRM, who is unitarian. He said he doenst believe like me and by definition, Im not a Unitarian at all(because I believe Jesus IS God and he does not). I checked out David Bernards book online and he categorizes several types of oneness idologies. He mentions my way of thinking also, but does not comment on it much. He just speaks of the many varieties.

Aquila · #8 06-04-2014, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams

I haven't been on in about, forever, but I was wondering about this new doctrine (not really new) cropping up among Apostolics that Jesus was just a man and not God, and this "profound epiphany" solves all the tough questions Trinitarians throw at Oneness folks. How pervasive is this new wind of doctrine among the rank and file, and is there any effort underway for something to be done about it?

The man, Jesus Christ, was indeed a man. A human being. Yet He was also God. How? Oneness. He was one with the Father.

Let's review how Jesus Himself describes His Oneness with the Father...

John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one. (KJV)

John 10:38
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (KJV)

John 12:45
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (KJV)

John 14:7-10
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (KJV)

If you walked the earth with Jesus, you'd get to know Him as a man. He'd teach. He'd laugh. He'd eat. He'd use the restroom. He'd sleep. He'd rest. He'd pray and speak of His Heavenly Father. He'd fast. He'd cry. He'd sweat. He'd bleed. However... at times you'd feel something otherworldly emanating from deep within Him. Something emanating from the very core of His being. Something powerful. Something that has authority over all creation. Something that speaks to the winds... bringing them into obedience. Something that raises the dead and heals all manner of sickness. Something indescribable. You'd sense GOD Himself at the core of Christ's own person. You'd realize that this man is... also God.

However, keep in mind...God did not reside in Christ as a vehicle. God resided in and permeated Christ's very being. A Oneness so complete, so majestic, and so divine that in Christ it can be said that God became a man... and that this very same man was also God.

No other religion elevates Christ to such an infinite height of majesty and honor. No other religion expresses Christ's true person to such an infinite degree. Most religions merely make Christ a prophet. No... Christ was not just a prophet. Christ was the human tabernacle of God Himself. To deny this imperils the soul... and reduces Christ to being either a lunatic or a liar.

All authority and power has been delivered to Christ Jesus. He will judge Krishna. He will judge Buddha. He will judge Mohammed. He will judge Nanak. He will judge the followers of every false prophet and madman. He will judge all men in accordance to the Father's will as it relates to the Gospel. Through Him, the Father will judge. Because they are one.

FlamingZword · #9 06-04-2014, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Sounds like the problem is that many Apostolics probably have never really "got it" that Jesus was and still is a MAN while being God at the same time.

Notice this scripture:

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 1 Tim. 2:5

Is there only one God? Yes its Jesus! Is there only one mediator between God and men? Yes its the MAN Christ Jesus!

The Christ is both God and man.

This faith used to be called "Jesus Only". We need to get back to that.

You are absolutely correct.
Jesus is still a man and yet God, but many can not understand that, so they choose to make him all God or all man.
The idea that he can be both at the same time is too much for their little brains to handle.
Jesus is not 50% man and 50% God
He is 100% man and 100% God, and no this does not make him two persons.

Aquila · #10 06-04-2014, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

You are absolutely correct.
Jesus is still a man and yet God, but many can not understand that, so they choose to make him all God or all man.
The idea that he can be both at the same time is too much for their little brains to handle.
Jesus is not 50% man and 50% God
He is 100% man and 100% God, and no this does not make him two persons.

Why do we fear the word "persons"? Isn't the man Jesus Christ a "human person" (human self-conscious reality)? Isn't the Father a "divine person" (divine self-conscious reality)? Don't we see these two realities interact when Christ is praying and the Father speaks from Heaven?

Please note, the distinction of person doesn't demand a separation with regards to being. They are one. They share being. All that one is the other is also. Therefore while we see a distinction of "person" we see a singularity of being.

If Jesus truly is 100% man... He has to have a human mind. If Jesus is also 100% God... as a man, He has to also share or partake in the entire being of the Father, who has a divine mind.

Here's a little graphic I use to explain this concept: