Explain this scripture (Is 7:14)

[TGBTG]

Ok folks, this is one scripture I can't seem to understand. Maybe some of y'all AFF theologians can chime in.

Is 7
10 Moreover the Lord spake again unto Ahaz, saying,

11 Ask thee a sign of the Lord thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.

12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the Lord.

13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?

14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

17 The Lord shall bring upon thee, and upon thy people, and upon thy father's house, days that have not come, from the day that Ephraim departed from Judah; even the king of Assyria.

18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall hiss for the fly that is in the uttermost part of the rivers of Egypt, and for the bee that is in the land of Assyria.

19 And they shall come, and shall rest all of them in the desolate valleys, and in the holes of the rocks, and upon all thorns, and upon all bushes.

So here's the question: The sign that was given to Ahaz through Isaiah from God was that a virgin will give birth. That before that child reached the age of accountability, Damascus and Samaria will lose their kings.

Now, we also know from Matt 1:23 that that prophecy in Is 7:14 is said to have been fulfilled when the virgin Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ.

So was the virgin birth a double fulfillment? As in did a virgin give birth in Isaiah's day (as a sign to Ahaz)?

Or did the virgin birth occur only once (Mary giving birth to Jesus)? If so, how was the sign goven to Ahaz fulfilled?

Or am I just missing it completely??

Thanks AFF scholars!

[Sam]

[QUOTE=TGBTG;1293417]

...So was the virgin birth a double fulfillment? As in did a virgin give birth in Isaiah's day (as a sign to Ahaz)?

Or did the virgin birth occur only once (Mary giving birth to Jesus)? If so, how was the sign goven to Ahaz fulfilled?

Or am I just missing it completely??

Thanks AFF scholars![/QUOTE

This prophecy was primarily to the House of David. "However, this sign was not to be fulfilled during the days of Ahaz nor yet for some time afterward,... Thus before this child should come on the scene and grow up to years of maturity, not only the king of Israel, but also the king of Judah would have ceased to reign, and the land would be left without a son of David sitting on the throne of Judah, or any representative sitting upon the throne of Israel..." pages 46 and 47 of "Isaiah" by H.A. Ironside, copyright 1952 by Loizeaux Brothers, Inc

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Ok folks, this is one scripture I can't seem to understand. Maybe some of y'all AFF theologians can chime in.

Is 7
10 Moreover the Lord spake again unto Ahaz, saying,

11 Ask thee a sign of the Lord thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.

12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the Lord.

13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?

14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

17 The Lord shall bring upon thee, and upon thy people, and upon thy father's house, days that have not come, from the day that Ephraim departed from Judah; even the king of Assyria.

18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall hiss for the fly that is in the uttermost part of the rivers of Egypt, and for the bee that is in the land of Assyria.

19 And they shall come, and shall rest all of them in the desolate valleys, and in the holes of the rocks, and upon all thorns, and upon all bushes.

So here's the question: The sign that was given to Ahaz through Isaiah from God was that a virgin will give birth. That before that child reached the age of accountability, Damascus and Samaria will lose their kings.

Now, we also know from Matt 1:23 that that prophecy in Is 7:14 is said to have been fulfilled when the virgin Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ.

So was the virgin birth a double fulfillment? As in did a virgin give birth in Isaiah's day (as a sign to Ahaz)?

Or did the virgin birth occur only once (Mary giving birth to Jesus)? If so, how was the sign goven to Ahaz fulfilled?

Or am I just missing it completely??

Thanks AFF scholars!

Many prophecies have a dual fulfillment.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Many prophecies have a dual fulfillment.

So are we to believe that there was a virgin birth in the days of Ahaz?

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Sam

This prophecy was primarily to the House of David. "However, this sign was not to be fulfilled during the days of Ahaz nor yet for some time afterward,...

So there was no sign given to the House of David to show them that God would deliver them from their enemies?

Originally Posted by Sam

Thus before this child should come on the scene and grow up to years of maturity, not only the king of Israel, but also the king of Judah would have ceased to reign, and the land would be left without a son of David sitting on the throne of Judah, or any representative sitting upon the throne of Israel..." pages 46 and 47 of "Isaiah" by H.A. Ironside, copyright 1952 by Loizeaux Brothers, Inc

Isaiah 7 (NKJV)
14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.
15 Curds and honey He shall eat, that He may know to refuse the evil and choose the good.
16 For before the Child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that you dread will be forsaken by both her kings


But it says the sign God would give Israel was the sign of a virgin giving birth and that before that child grew to maturity, those kings would have ceased to reign. It doesn't say those kings would have ceased to reign before the child was born.

[TGBTG]

So I found this article online.

The gist of the article is that the word "almah" can mean a young woman or a virgin. In Isaiah, it means a young woman. In Matthew, it means a virgin.


Here's an extract:

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/the_..._conceive.html

THIRD --- By far the most popular view, however, and the one that seems the most likely interpretation to me, is that "Isaiah probably referred to his own son" [Craig S. Keener, A Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew, p. 87]. "Almah refers to the young wife of the prophet himself" [Keil & Delitzsch, vol. 7, p. 216]. "The child immediately in view was the son of the prophet and his wife who served as a sign to Ahaz that his enemies would be defeated by God.

There was no embarrassment to Isaiah when his wife conceived a son by him, since the word almah allowed for this. Neither is there any embarrassment in Matthew's understanding of the word" [The New Strong's Expanded Dictionary of Bible Words, p. 715]. In other words, almah, when properly understood, would allow either Mary (an actual virgin) to conceive and be with child, just as it would Isaiah's wife (a young woman, though not a virgin). Both would fall under the parameters of the meaning of the word. Dr. Charles Ellicott, in his commentary, concurs -- "The most probable conjecture seems to be that it was Isaiah's own wife, still young (almah), and, as it were, still a bride" [vol. 4, p. 437].

· Thus the problem, perceived by some, that a double fulfillment of Isaiah 7:14 necessitates two "virgin births" is solved. This is brought out very well in an article that appeared in Christianity Today a number of years ago: "The prophetess (Isaiah's wife) bears a son ... and this son is the promised sign to King Ahaz.

If, therefore, we insist that Isaiah 7:14 be translated with 'virgin' and never with 'young woman,' we find ourselves with two virgin births recorded in Scripture, while we hold that the birth of Christ was unique. By acknowledging that almah can mean either 'young woman' or 'virgin,' we avoid this inconsistency. Matthew, faced with the twin meaning of the word ('young woman of marriageable age' and 'virgin'), by the inspiration of the Spirit chose 'virgin'" [J. Taylor, "Born of a Virgin," Christianity Today, Dec. 18, 1964].

There are additional evidences that this view (the "sign" was fulfilled in the birth of a child to Isaiah and his wife, who was a prophetess) is likely the correct one. As we have already seen implied, Isaiah took one of his sons with him when he initially confronted Ahaz [Isaiah 7:3], and most feel this was a sign to the king. We also have the testimony of Isaiah himself in this context: "Behold, I and the children the Lord has given me are signs and symbols in Israel from the Lord Almighty, who dwells on Mount Zion" [Isaiah 8:18]. Thus, the "sign" that was to be given to Ahaz, which was the birth of a child to a "young woman," could very clearly have been one of the children of Isaiah.

Was such a child conceived, and did this child match the conditions that by a certain age the people of Judah would be delivered? The answer is Yes. "Then I went to the prophetess, and she conceived and gave birth to a son. And the Lord said to me, 'Name him Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz (which means "quick to the plunder, swift to the spoil"). Before the boy knows how to say, "My father" or "My mother," the wealth of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria will be carried off by the king of Assyria'" [Isaiah 8:3-4]. This perfectly coincides with the sign to be given to Ahaz -- "Before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste" [Isaiah 7:16]. Although the child was not literally named "Immanuel," nevertheless he clearly signifies the reality of "God with us!"

Isaiah 7:14 is a beautiful prophecy of hope and deliverance during time of distress. It is also a powerful testimony to the grace of God Almighty, who is not willing to quickly abandon even the most obstinate among us. God delivered His people Judah from the threat they faced during the time of King Ahaz. He also, in a far more significant way, has delivered His people of all ages from the threat of sin and death with the incarnation of His Son -- the true embodiment of Immanuel: "God with us!" Praise God for His matchless grace.

[TGBTG]

Thoughts on the above article?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

So are we to believe that there was a virgin birth in the days of Ahaz?

Maybe. The Hebrew word just means young maiden. The implication of that is she may not be married yet.

BUT why is that a problem that a virgin conceived in the days of Ahaz?

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Maybe. The Hebrew word just means young maiden. The implication of that is she may not be married yet.

BUT why is that a problem that a virgin conceived in the days of Ahaz?

Well, if a virgin conceived in the days of Ahaz, that would mean that the birth of Christ was not unique in human history.

Isn't one of the foundations of Christianity the virgin birth of Christ being unique?

Also, the doctrine that Christ was the only person born without an Adamic nature would not hold true. And there are other implications.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Well, if a virgin conceived in the days of Ahaz, that would mean that the birth of Christ was not unique in human history.

Isn't one of the foundations of Christianity the virgin birth of Christ being unique?

Also, the doctrine that Christ was the only person born without an Adamic nature would not hold true. And there are other implications.

The Uniqueness of His birth is not merely that Mary was a virgin but that the conception was a direct cause of the Creator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miraculous_births