Matthew 7:21-23

[votivesoul]

Matthew 7:21-23,

21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Please share your take. In particular, I am looking for input on whether these souls, turned away at the Judgment, were Spirit-filled men and/or woman (by calling Jesus Lord [See 1 Corinthians 12:3], performing gifts of the Spirit, etc.)

[renee819]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Matthew 7:21-23,



Please share your take. In particular, I am looking for input on whether these souls, turned away at the Judgment, were Spirit-filled men and/or woman (by calling Jesus Lord [See 1 Corinthians 12:3], performing gifts of the Spirit, etc.)

Yes, I believe they were.
Believers, not filled with the Spirit, might, because they believe God, pray and once in a while see a miracle. But the gifts of the Spirit, are given to those that are filled with the Spirit. However, the “gifts and callings of God are without repentance” therefore, I believe a person can receive the gift of healing, prophecy, rtc. And backslide and still have the gift, still talk in tongues, preform healing's, etc

That is why we can not follow a man, (signs) just because he has the gifts of the Spirit.

[BalancedLife]

It is my understanding in reading this passage that these are believers and are those who are Spirit-filled. As you referenced 1 Corinthians, Paul tells us no man can call Jesus Lord but by the Holy Spirit.

In order to understand who Jesus is talking about in verses 21-23, you must grasp the entire chapters context. He begins by talking about not judging others, and talking about the hypocrites that point out the flaws in their brothers while having larger ones of their own. He then tells us how ask and be kind to one another (showing us the ultimate love of our Father in verse 11).

He tells us how to watch out for these folks who He condemns in verse 21-23 starting at verse 15. The Greek word for "false prophets" means someone who acts the part, but inwardly have the wrong motives and then tells us to watch for their fruit they bear. Then these people (who are Spirit-filled) will be met in judgment by God for outwardly they did everything they thought was right, but inwardly they were corrupt and evil.

Jesus lets us know how to avoid this in verse 23 when He tells them He never "knew" them. That Greek word comes from the Hebrew word for being intimate between a man and a woman; Jesus lets us know it is about relationship with Him because as Paul states we can speak with tongues of men and angels, but if we have not charity inside of us, it is worth nothing.

[Lafon]

How can it be that the ones whom Jesus will respond to their pleas by telling them He never knew them be construed as referring to Spirit-filled saints?

Perhaps I'm "all wet" in my thinking here, but it seems, to me at least, that Jesus could NOT tell someone He NEVER knew them, especially when considering the fact that He DID know them when He baptized them with His Spirit. That is, how is it possible for our Lord to baptize one with His Spirit in the absence of NOT first knowing them?

When we read the words recorded in Luke 13:22-25, it is disclosed that Jesus responded to the inquiry concerning what the inquirer apparently construed from His remarks to imply that only a few would be saved, by stating the very same thing He said as it is written in Matthew 7:13-23 ...

"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto them, I KNOW YOU NOT WHENCE YE ARE: ..."

Here in Luke's writings, and by using different words, is not Jesus asserting the very same thing that He did as written by Matthew? I think so!

[renee819]

Originally Posted by BalancedLife

It is my understanding in reading this passage that these are believers and are those who are Spirit-filled. As you referenced 1 Corinthians, Paul tells us no man can call Jesus Lord but by the Holy Spirit.

In order to understand who Jesus is talking about in verses 21-23, you must grasp the entire chapters context. He begins by talking about not judging others, and talking about the hypocrites that point out the flaws in their brothers while having larger ones of their own. He then tells us how ask and be kind to one another (showing us the ultimate love of our Father in verse 11).

He tells us how to watch out for these folks who He condemns in verse 21-23 starting at verse 15. The Greek word for "false prophets" means someone who acts the part, but inwardly have the wrong motives and then tells us to watch for their fruit they bear. Then these people (who are Spirit-filled) will be met in judgment by God for outwardly they did everything they thought was right, but inwardly they were corrupt and evil.

Jesus lets us know how to avoid this in verse 23 when He tells them He never "knew" them. That Greek word comes from the Hebrew word for being intimate between a man and a woman; Jesus lets us know it is about relationship with Him because as Paul states we can speak with tongues of men and angels, but if we have not charity inside of us, it is worth nothing.

I agree. But what I don't understand, is, "I never knew you." Never?

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by renee819

I agree. But what I don't understand, is, "I never knew you." Never?

I think of our Lord's use of this word in expressing this matter as I might express the relations I enjoy with my family as opposed to others. You see, I KNOW my family members on an intimate level, but not so with my neighbors. So I don't construe our Lord's use of the word "never" as implying that He did not know "of" them, rather He did not know them on that intimate level which He demands of those who desire to enter heaven's domain.

Lest we forget, it is to these that He is speaking, that is, the "many ... who will seek to enter in, and shall not be able" because they never had that intimate relationship with Him as do we to whom He has given of His Spirit.

Does this "make sense"? I pray that it does.

[Adino]

Votive, I guess I can answer this one rather quickly. I believe there are multitudes who can claim to have cast out devils and performed wonderful works in the name of Christ. This doesn't make is so….

Also, I do not think the 1 Corinthians passage speaks of everyone who vocalizes the Lordship of Christ as being empowered to do so by the Spirit. Demons called him Lord and they were certainly not Spirit-filled or empowered by the Spirit to do so in any way. I do believe that no one can say Jesus is Lord "from a genuine heart of faith" without being empowered by the Spirit to do so. The confession "of faith" is itself empowered by the Spirit. This is one of the reasons I hold that an individual who confesses Christ in true faith is to be considered "saved" and welcomed into the Christian community at large.

Christ said it was upon this rock - which I hold to be the confession of his person - that he was to build his Church. The man who believes with his heart unto righteousness [before God] is to then confess with his mouth unto salvation [before his peers]. The Church is to be built upon a confession of Christ. Only those who say that Jesus is Lord from a heart of faith are to be welcomed into the Church.

Sorry, I must run….. enjoy your evening

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Lafon

How can it be that the ones whom Jesus will respond to their pleas by telling them He never knew them be construed as referring to Spirit-filled saints?

Perhaps I'm "all wet" in my thinking here, but it seems, to me at least, that Jesus could NOT tell someone He NEVER knew them, especially when considering the fact that He DID know them when He baptized them with His Spirit. That is, how is it possible for our Lord to baptize one with His Spirit in the absence of NOT first knowing them?

When we read the words recorded in Luke 13:22-25, it is disclosed that Jesus responded to the inquiry concerning what the inquirer apparently construed from His remarks to imply that only a few would be saved, by stating the very same thing He said as it is written in Matthew 7:13-23 ...

"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto them, I KNOW YOU NOT WHENCE YE ARE: ..."

Here in Luke's writings, and by using different words, is not Jesus asserting the very same thing that He did as written by Matthew? I think so!

I think I am understanding you correctly, Lafon.

How do you account for the claims made by the petitioner?

They call Jesus "Lord".

They claim to have prophesied and performed the miraculous in His name.

Is this a false claim, as Adino suggests, or were these people once upon a time enabled by the Holy Spirit to do such things, but then became shipwreck and castaway in terms of the long-view of their salvation?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Adino

Votive, I guess I can answer this one rather quickly. I believe there are multitudes who can claim to have cast out devils and performed wonderful works in the name of Christ. This doesn't make is so….

Also, I do not think the 1 Corinthians passage speaks of everyone who vocalizes the Lordship of Christ as being empowered to do so by the Spirit. Demons called him Lord and they were certainly not Spirit-filled or empowered by the Spirit to do so in any way. I do believe that no one can say Jesus is Lord "from a genuine heart of faith" without being empowered by the Spirit to do so. The confession "of faith" is itself empowered by the Spirit. This is one of the reasons I hold that an individual who confesses Christ in true faith is to be considered "saved" and welcomed into the Christian community at large.

Christ said it was upon this rock - which I hold to be the confession of his person - that he was to build his Church. The man who believes with his heart unto righteousness [before God] is to then confess with his mouth unto salvation [before his peers]. The Church is to be built upon a confession of Christ. Only those who say that Jesus is Lord from a heart of faith are to be welcomed into the Church.

Sorry, I must run….. enjoy your evening

I see how it may be perceived that the claims were false; that the claimants were liars. But the story is presented as though the claims are factual/accurate (which makes the teaching more alarming, I might add).

The Lord doesn't call them liars and falsifiers, or rebuke them for saying they used His name when they did no such thing.

The Lord rather seems to be making the case that even though what they claimed was true, their personal conduct, by the end of their lives', no matter how they may have been used in temporary situations, was not good enough, since they hadn't done all the will of the Father, even though it's God's will that people prophesy, cast out devils, and perform miracles.

Regarding 1 Corinthians 12:3, it may be so that many who presume to call Jesus Lord, aren't really doing so by an enabling of the Holy Spirit through faith. They are, as called in Scripture, false brethren.

But what then, if, just if, their deeds actually were Holy Spirit enabled.

Cannot some begin in the faith, be used by God, but then fall into error, distortion, damnable heresy, and/or immorality sufficient to lose salvation, even though they had once procured it by grace unto regeneration?

[renee819]

Votive wrote,

Cannot some begin in the faith, be used by God, but then fall into error, distortion, damnable heresy, and/or immorality sufficient to lose salvation, even though they had once procured it by grace unto regeneration?

Yes, I believe that to be so. If they had continued in love, I don't believe they would have fell for error. The error of making a great name for themselves, for greed, etc, and not for the love of God, nor the love for people, but for selfish reasons. One of the greatest errors of this generation is the message of Positive Confession and the Prosperity Message.

But that word, “never” still bothers me.

Can it mean---”not be remembered?” You that know Greek and Hebrew

Ezekiel 33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

Never is made up of two words---from <G3761> (oude) and <G4218> (pote); not even at any time, i.e. never at all :- neither at any time, never, nothing at any time.

The word--pote----

Vine's Words: Aforetime, Length (at), Once, Past


Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:
in time past 5
at any time 3
in times past 3
sometimes 3
sometime 3
once 2
not tr 1
miscellaneous translations 9
[Total Count: 29]

from the base of <G4225> (pou) and <G5037> (te); indefininte adverb, at sometime, ever :- afore- (any, some-) time (-s), at length (the last), (+ n-) ever, in the old time, in time past, once, when.

Strong's