How Tenuous is Your Salvation

[Real Realism]

So, I had to laugh when Elder Epley posted (I'm twisting his words slightly) "go to hell" in another thread.

But, it got me thinking: while I many of us oppose "once saved always saved" doctrine...at what point are you not "saved" anymore? I think this is something that people who "grow up in church" commonly struggle to understand. Receiving the Holy Ghost, and even being baptized under the age of 10 makes it difficult for one to comprehend having once been "lost in sin" and since redeemed. (For those who weren't raised in church, here's some context...imagine "getting saved" before having experienced puberty.)

It took me at least a decade into adulthood to come to grips with the assurity that my salvation is not predicated on my ability to behave well enough. I no longer need to live with my eyes on "what can I avoid doing wrong" or "I'd rather do X so that I'm demonstrating how 'sold out' I am". Instead , I recognize the power of the Spirit that's within me and follow his leading. When my flesh fights a battle and occasionally wins, I recognize the blood of Jesus Christ was shed to cover my sins...the ones I committed at 6 years old, the ones I committed at 18 years old, and the ones I'll commit tomorrow. How true Christ's word when he told us his yolk is easy.

But, it does make me think...sure, I'm going to mess up again in the future. And I no longer live in doubt that my next mistake will "revoke" my salvation...but when does one end up "falling away"? What does that look like? What does it take?

[votivesoul]

I don't think it's a light switch that God turns off and on, depending on what we do or don't do, day to day, day in and day out.

But willful sin, which, once committed, if confronted by the Spirit or the Body, is ignored or not repented of, then someone has certainly endangered themselves. The longer one goes without returning and re-uniting with Christ, the less likely they ever will. Eventually, God will give them up to unclean-ness. At that point, such a person is filled with all unrighteousness. And just like that, his or her salvation is most certainly lost.

So, if I was being technical, except for reprobation, I might say that one doesn't lose one's salvation until they die and are judged lost by God. At any moment, in the life of a backslider, should he or she return in faith, humility, confession, and repentance, they can instantly be renewed and restored by the Father.

[Fraxeas]

Amen! A Christian should be striving for, and have evidence of, coming closer to the 'fulness of God.' I was 'saved' for 20 years before I even found this path. You'll know when you have been adjudged to be not even trying to find it when you receive the sin unto death; which is never dying in your sleep peacefully.

"13 But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived."

[Michael The Disciple]

Sometimes its not a matter of any certain sin. It may be just not bearing fruit in general. Jesus seems to be showing us that HERE.

6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. 7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? 8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: 9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down. Luke 13:6-9

In this case 3 years was given to start bearing fruit. Then in great mercy the Lord granted another year! And yet after that if the fruit did not appear the tree "person" would be cut down.

And no Im not saying its that same time frame for everyone. Nonetheless everyone should take their walk with God very seriously. Altho he may give some people longer than 3 years he could give some less!

Let us fear as well as love God.

[renee819]

Real R, at last, some very important questions.

While we do not believe in OSAS, I think we all know that we can't be unborn. So once 'born again' always born again, BUT, if a person backslides, leaves the Faith deliberately, their punishment will be grater than if they had never known the true way.

We must keep a repentant spirit. And that doesn't mean presumptuous sins. I've read and heard people that believe OSAS say, when they sin, “So what? All my sins are forgiven.”

We must with everything in us, keep from sin. Examining ourselves to see if there is any greed, hate, lies, pride, thoughts of immorality, covetousness, lurking in our thoughts, actions or speech.
I believe these are the things that trip us up. And these things creep into our minds by just rubbing shoulders with the world, and if we are unaware of the ways that these can trip us, then our ignorance can destroy us.

That is why, personal Bible study is so important. The Word, is a two-edged sword, showing us our sins.

I don't believe what you wear, where you go, what you see, is the problem. The problem lies in why do you wear the clothes that you wear? Why do you go to the places that you go to? Why do you read or watch the things that you see?

The REASON behind it all? To be seductive? To act and be like the world? Pride?
When does God let us go? I don't know.
Maybe it is when we feel restricted by trying to live a righteous and holy life, and want to be free to do anything that we desire. After so long, maybe God sets us free. And then we see people doing what they wanted to do all the time. Their conscience seered as with a hot iron, they no longer think or act as Christians should.

I don't believe any of us take our salvation as serious as we should.

[seekerman]

Actually, to take it one step back, when is a person 'unsaved' originally? I've asked several times about when a person is actually redeemed, is it at birth, after they're born, at 12 years old (the alleged age of accountability)....when? The question isn't simply some theological exercise but is one of the most important truths facing humanity today.

So, the first question shouldn't be if a person can, or could, lose their salvation, the first question should be when is a person 'saved' to begin with.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Real Realism

So, I had to laugh when Elder Epley posted (I'm twisting his words slightly) "go to hell" in another thread.

But, it got me thinking: while I many of us oppose "once saved always saved" doctrine...at what point are you not "saved" anymore? I think this is something that people who "grow up in church" commonly struggle to understand. Receiving the Holy Ghost, and even being baptized under the age of 10 makes it difficult for one to comprehend having once been "lost in sin" and since redeemed. (For those who weren't raised in church, here's some context...imagine "getting saved" before having experienced puberty.)

It took me at least a decade into adulthood to come to grips with the assurity that my salvation is not predicated on my ability to behave well enough. I no longer need to live with my eyes on "what can I avoid doing wrong" or "I'd rather do X so that I'm demonstrating how 'sold out' I am". Instead , I recognize the power of the Spirit that's within me and follow his leading. When my flesh fights a battle and occasionally wins, I recognize the blood of Jesus Christ was shed to cover my sins...the ones I committed at 6 years old, the ones I committed at 18 years old, and the ones I'll commit tomorrow. How true Christ's word when he told us his yolk is easy.

But, it does make me think...sure, I'm going to mess up again in the future. And I no longer live in doubt that my next mistake will "revoke" my salvation...but when does one end up "falling away"? What does that look like? What does it take?

Nothing can remove the saved from His hands!!! It is not our ability to always do right, is the power of the grace and blood of the Savior of the world!!!
Love you post!!

[Disciple4life]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Sometimes its not a matter of any certain sin. It may be just not bearing fruit in general. Jesus seems to be showing us that HERE.

In this case 3 years was given to start bearing fruit. Then in great mercy the Lord granted another year! And yet after that if the fruit did not appear the tree "person" would be cut down.

And no Im not saying its that same time frame for everyone. Nonetheless everyone should take their walk with God very seriously. Altho he may give some people longer than 3 years he could give some less!

Let us fear as well as love God.

Thanks Michael, I learned something today. What a great scripture!

[Disciple4life]

Hebrews 10:31

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

[Fraxeas]

Originally Posted by Disciple4life

Thanks Michael, I learned something today. What a great scripture!

Yes, very nice. Renee, too, ty.