Israel in prophecy?

[Esaias]

Some prophecies concerning Israel:

Gen 17

1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

3And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

4As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Abraham was to be the ancestor of 'many nations'. God said 'I will make nations of thee', and that His Covenant would be established with them 'for an everlasting covenant'. Notice, in reference to 'thy seed' in v. 7, God says 'their generations'.

Gen 21

12And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
13And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

Two things: 1. Isaac was the child of promise, meaning Isaac was the one whom God was saying Abraham would father. Thus, Isaac is the one who would be the OFFICIAL 'seed' or descendant of Abraham, who would inherit the birthright of Abraham, which is nothing less than God's everlasting covenant. Ishmael was thus rejected. 2. Ishmael, although rejected as HEIR of Abraham (including heir to the covenant and promises) was nevertheless blessed and would become a 'nation' (singular) simply due to being a biological descendant of Abraham. BUT, the promises made to Abraham would be fulfilled via Isaac, not Ishmael.

Gen 25

31And Jacob said, Sell me this day thy birthright.

32And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point to die: and what profit shall this birthright do to me?

33And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob.

34Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentiles; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus Esau despised his birthright.

Esau was the firstborn of Isaac, and as such would have inherited the birthright and covenant promises. However, he was a profane person and despised what God had provided for him, so he sold it to Jacob. Jacob, who obviously valued the birthright, now has it. The Covenant is going to passed on through Jacob, not Esau.

In Genesis 27 we read of how Jacob disguised himself as though he were Esau in order to deceive his father, Isaac (who had grown old and near-blind) into blessing him with the blessing due to the firstborn.

Gen 28

27And he came near, and kissed him: and he smelled the smell of his raiment, and blessed him, and said, See, the smell of my son is as the smell of a field which the LORD hath blessed:

28Therefore God give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine:

29Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethren, and let thy mother's sons bow down to thee: cursed be every one that curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee.

Jacob was blessed prophetically with wealth and resources, geopolitical leadership, and superiority over Esau's descendants. Further, anyone who cursed Jacob would be considered cursed, and anyone who blessed Jacob would be considered blessed.

Jacob was thus the heir of Abraham and Isaac, heir of the everlasting Covenant with YHVH the One True God (whom we know in Jesus Christ).

Gen 27 (cont.)

39And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above;

40And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck.

41And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said in his heart, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then will I slay my brother Jacob.

Here Esau discovers he was cheated out of his blessing. Notice he 'seeks a place of repentance with many tears' and does not find it (Isaac cannot take back the prophetic blessing he gave to Jacob). However he does get the pronouncement that he will have material wealth but would be militant/violent, would be subservient to Jacob, and at some point would 'have the dominion' and would break free of Jacob's rule. Esau decides to murder his brother, and thus begins a long feud between Jacob and Esau, which would be continued in many ways by their descendants.


Gen 28
1And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan.

2Arise, go to Padanaram, to the house of Bethuel thy mother's father; and take thee a wife from thence of the daughters of Laban thy mother's brother.

3And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people;

4And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham.

Here we see Isaac blessing Jacob again that he and his descendants would be a 'multitude of people' and have the 'blessing of Abraham'.

Later, as Jacob is about to die he decides to bless his son Joseph, particularly Joseph's two sons Manasseh and Ephraim.

Gen 48

12And Joseph brought them out from between his knees, and he bowed himself with his face to the earth.

13And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his right hand toward Israel's left hand, and Manasseh in his left hand toward Israel's right hand, and brought them near unto him.

14And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.

15And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,

16The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

17And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.

18And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.

19And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

20And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.

21And Israel said unto Joseph, Behold, I die: but God shall be with you, and bring you again unto the land of your fathers.

22Moreover I have given to thee one portion above thy brethren, which I took out of the hand of the Amorite with my sword and with my bow.

Several things to notice here: Just as Ishmael, Abraham's technical 'firstborn' was replaced by Isaac, and just as Esau, Isaac's firstborn was replaced by Jacob, Manasseh the first-born of Joseph is replaced by Ephraim. They are both blessed, but Ephraim is given the pre-eminent place. Also, these two grandsons of Jacob constitute the 'portion' of Joseph, and that 'portion' is superior to the portions alloted to the other sons of Jacob.

In particular, the following specifics are part of this prophetic blessing upon Ephraim and Manasseh:

1. They are to have the 'name of Jacob/Israel' named upon them. That is, they are pre-eminently to carry on Jacob/Israel's name, more so than their brothers. Also, the name of Abraham and Isaac as well was to be 'named upon them'. Thus, Ephraim and Manasseh were to be especially identified as the 'descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Isaac.'

2. They were to grow into a 'multitude' of people.

3. Manasseh was to become a 'great people'.

4. Ephraim was to become a 'multitude of nations', and would be greater than Manasseh.

Now there are numerous additional prophecies regarding Jacob/Israel's descendants, found all throughout the Bible, however what I have referenced here is sufficient to point out a few important truths that most modern 'prophecy students' and 'prophecy experts' seem to have overlooked. Abraham's descendants were to have the following prophesied characteristics: They were to become a great people, wealthy, powerful, a 'great nation', and were to increase in such numbers as to become a MULTITUDE OF NATIONS.

These prophetic characteristics were to found in the descendants of Isaac, not Ishmael. Furthermore, they were to be found in the descendants of Jacob/Israel, not Esau and his descendants. In addition, the grandson of Jacob, Manasseh, was himself to become a 'great people' and a 'nation'. And moreover, the other grandson of Jacob/Israel, Ephraim, was to be even greater and his descendnats would become a MULTITUDE OF NATIONS.

I will for the moment leave off discussion of the prophecy concerning Esau and the time of Esau's dominion. Those of you studying prophecy, consider these things. The twelve tribes of Israel were not intended by God to just be a little rag-tag third world nation, but a MULTITUDE OF NATIONS possessing incredible WEALTH and POWER. Specifically, the half-tribes of Manasseh and Ephraim were themselves to become a 'nation' and a MULTITUDE OF NATIONS possessing wealth and power.

The question before you is:

WHEN HAS THIS BEEN FULFILLED? Where is this MULTITUDE OF NATIONS in history? Has God lied? Have God's promises failed?

Or did the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Manasseh, and Ephraim become a MULTITUDE OF NATIONS possessing great wealth and power? And if so, do those nations still exist today?

I will post more, Lord willing, tomorrow.

[Esaias]

Note: the phrase "Thus, Ephraim and Manasseh were to be especially identified as the 'descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Isaac.'" should read "Thus, Ephraim and Manasseh were to be especially identified as the 'descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob/Israel.'

sorry about that.

[Scott Hutchinson]

If I understand the book of Galatians the redeemed are the new covenant seed of Abraham by faith.The church is comprised of many ethnic groups hence many nations,I understand that the redeemed are the new covenant seed of Abraham.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

If I understand the book of Galatians the redeemed are the new covenant seed of Abraham by faith.The church is comprised of many ethnic groups hence many nations,I understand that the redeemed are the new covenant seed of Abraham.

I think there is a difference between 'out of many = one' and 'out of one = many', don't you think?

[Scott Hutchinson]

If I understand correctly the Messiah was to be a descendant of Abraham,so through a physical seed of Abraham He would come,in the New Covenant both Jew and Gentile are one new man through Jesus Christ so it would seem that the church is the new covenant Israel or seed of Abraham now.

[Esaias]

The fact that many people of many nations are Christians does not negate the promises of God, to wit, that Israel (and the tribe of Ephraim) were to become a multitude of nations, possessing great wealth and power, etc.

You are close, brother Scott, but I think you are assuming some things and thus not noticing some other things.

It is true that the Church is the Israel of God.

But that doesn't negate the promises of God to Abraham and his descendants (see romans 11:1).

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

If I understand correctly the Messiah was to be a descendant of Abraham,so through a physical seed of Abraham He would come,in the New Covenant both Jew and Gentile are one new man through Jesus Christ so it would seem that the church is the new covenant Israel or seed of Abraham now.

Also, what does 'gentile' mean?

It means, literally, 'nation'. Thus, the 'gentiles' are the 'nations'. Obviously many nations (gentiles) are not descendants of Jacob/Israel, but if the promises of God are valid, if God kept His Word, then He promised Israel in general and Ephraim in particular would become a multitude of nations (gentiles).

[Scott Hutchinson]

If you look into the fact that would be The Father of many nations,I believe the word nations means Goyim or gentiles.What is a true Jew anyways ?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

If you look into the fact that would be The Father of many nations,I believe the word nations means Goyim or gentiles.What is a true Jew anyways ?

Brother, the word 'nations' does not mean 'goyim or gentiles'. You have it backwards there.

Originally Posted by wikipedia

In the Torah/Hebrew Bible, goy and its variants appear over 550 times in reference to Israelites and to Gentile nations.[citation needed] The first recorded usage of goy occurs in Genesis 10:5 and applies innocuously to non-Israelite nations. The first mention in relation to the Israelites comes in Genesis 12:2, when God promises Abraham that his descendants will form a goy gadol ("great nation"). In Exodus 19:6, the Jewish people are referred to as a goy kadosh, a "holy nation."[3] While the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible often use goy to describe the Israelites, the later ones tend to apply the term to other nations...

... In ancient Greek, ta ethne was used to translate ha goyim, both phrases meaning "the nations". In Latin, gentilis was used to translate the Greek word for "nation", which led to the word "gentile".[5]

[Cindy]

Aren't we all descendents of Noah?