Willful Sin vs. Falling?

[jboling90]

Ok, so we talk all the time about how God's mercy covers falling, but willful sin is different.
My question is this... where is the line drawn between falling and willful sin?
Isn't every sin "willful sin". I mean we often know to do better, but we don't.

Everytime I've sinned, I've faced a battle with myself on if I was going to give in to my carnal whims of the flesh or not. Sometimes I yielded, sometimes I did not.

What scares me even though I have seen myself grow and walk away from more and more carnality, sometimes I do slip into my old habbits, and feel like my old self again. And I do it by choice, usually because the enemy will place a lie in my head of depression or God doesn't care anyway, or anything that can be used as an excuse.

Now as someone who feels like God is going to use them in the ministry, I am looking for info on this topic.

Biblically speaking: Where is the line drawn between "wilfully sinning" and "falling"? between "cheap grace" and "grace that is greater than our sins"? between "his mercy endureth forever" and "the cup of iniquity being made full"? between "Lo, I am with you always" and "the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul"?

[KeptByTheWord]

You will fight your flesh every day. Paul says he "died daily" to his flesh. It is a battle that you will never say "okay, I'm done, I've won" until you've passed from this life to the next.

However, I believe that if we continue to die daily to the flesh, as Paul did, that you will begin to put on the mind of Christ as you read the Word, and pray, and help others along your way. Pray and ask Jesus to give you the mind of Christ.

Listen to the still small voice in your heart, and practice doing things that are hard for your flesh to do. The spirit of God speaks to our hearts in quiet ways asking us to do things that our flesh desperately does not want to do. Begin obeying the spirit of Christ living in you, and you will see a change. You will be an overcomer. Not by any works of your flesh but because you are exercising the mind of Christ in you.

[jboling90]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

You will fight your flesh every day. Paul says he "died daily" to his flesh. It is a battle that you will never say "okay, I'm done, I've won" until you've passed from this life to the next.

However, I believe that if we continue to die daily to the flesh, as Paul did, that you will begin to put on the mind of Christ as you read the Word, and pray, and help others along your way. Pray and ask Jesus to give you the mind of Christ.

Listen to the still small voice in your heart, and practice doing things that are hard for your flesh to do. The spirit of God speaks to our hearts in quiet ways asking us to do things that our flesh desperately does not want to do. Begin obeying the spirit of Christ living in you, and you will see a change. You will be an overcomer. Not by any works of your flesh but because you are exercising the mind of Christ in you.

Right because the Bible says if you walk in the Spirit, aka obey the voice of God and what He tells you, then you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. So is willful sin disobeying that small still voice then?

[Amanah]

a righteous man falls seven times and gets back up again.
what direction are you heading is the question . . .

[acerrak]

all sin is willfull sin.

What scares me even though I have seen myself grow and walk away from more and more carnality, sometimes I do slip into my old habbits, and feel like my old self again. And I do it by choice, usually because the enemy will place a lie in my head of depression or God doesn't care anyway, or anything that can be used as an excuse.

everyone goes through seasons, just like spring and summer you blossom and bloom and your vibrant.

then you have fall and winter you lose your leaves and the weather changes to cold, and there is very little spiritual growth.

Biblically speaking: Where is the line drawn between "wilfully sinning" and "falling"? between "cheap grace" and "grace that is greater than our sins"? between "his mercy endureth forever" and "the cup of iniquity being made full"? between "Lo, I am with you always" and "the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul"?

No one can tell you where the line is. There is no difference in willfull sinning and falling.
the church has tried to make it sound like its a little mistake or something, 'they preach ah sometimes i mess up.... what he was saying is some times i sin.

there is a danger of preaching to much armeniansm or hyper arminianism, people will be in and out of salvation on a daily bases so much that they empower sin greater than grace God bestows on them.

The way I look at. Jesus said "its finished" That means 2000 years ago, all of my past present and future sins was atoned for. My debt was paid before i was even born.

Yet like Paul i struggle in the flesh, My Spirit wants to do stuff for God but i just dont do it. I feel guilty and regret over it. That is conviction that lets you know God is with you.

Jesus was nailed to you.He was crucifed to you. His hand nailed to your hand. He will never leave you nor forsake you. As long as you want to be saved He will Keep you saved. Even if you feel like slipping back into your old habbits. God will chastize you and reprove you. Your his Child. You recieved the Spirit of adoption.

The only way i believe you can get out of this relationship is to take the nails out yourself. and still then you will be haunted by the Holy ghost.


Grace is a wonderful thing. Many people dont realize the power of Grace. Cause all we are is sinners covered by grace. No one lives a perfect sinless life in the flesh (save Christ) but we are perfected in Christ, we are declared rightous through Christ

My question is how many times can a person be born again? How many times are saved then unsaved?

To be honest Your covered by Grace in the winter months just as you are in the summer months, but people say thats easy peasy grace. No, no its not. there is nothing easy about the chastizment that is comming from God to corret you.

That is what sonship is, your now a son or daughter of God. You didnt earn salvation by merit and your cant do enough merits to keep your self saved.

If Grace was sufficient to get rid of your past guilt, why do some people believe its not strong enough for your present. If grace is Good for the past and present then we can depend on grace for our future.

Today right now, i am in a luke warm state, I hate it, i do I have already started reaching out for people to pray. last time i went through a luke warm state God spit me out. Did i lose my salvation . No but it caused me to hit a place where i wanted to get back into the Love of God and Doing His will and purpose in my life.

I expect it again maybe different than last time but its a correcting love from God. Cause i to preach. i feel so alive when i preach. The Joy that i have when i give a message that God gives to me is worth more than Gold. But after i preach i get so beat up spiritually i feel worthless. Last time i preached was very hard. I am still having a hard time recovering from it.

You will meet spiritual oposition and you will hit some low points in your life field with depression, you will hit points in your life when you feel like God doesnt care, or you question if he is listening. You may even rebel against Him and kick against the Goads for a short time, But you are saved, sanctified and filled with the Holy ghost. You are a child of God. and he will bring His Children back into line of His good and pleasing will.

[jboling90]

Originally Posted by acerrak

all sin is willfull sin.



everyone goes through seasons, just like spring and summer you blossom and bloom and your vibrant.

then you have fall and winter you lose your leaves and the weather changes to cold, and there is very little spiritual growth.




No one can tell you where the line is. There is no difference in willfull sinning and falling.
the church has tried to make it sound like its a little mistake or something, 'they preach ah sometimes i mess up.... what he was saying is some times i sin.

there is a danger of preaching to much armeniansm or hyper arminianism, people will be in and out of salvation on a daily bases so much that they empower sin greater than grace God bestows on them.

The way I look at. Jesus said "its finished" That means 2000 years ago, all of my past present and future sins was atoned for. My debt was paid before i was even born.

Yet like Paul i struggle in the flesh, My Spirit wants to do stuff for God but i just dont do it. I feel guilty and regret over it. That is conviction that lets you know God is with you.

Jesus was nailed to you.He was crucifed to you. His hand nailed to your hand. He will never leave you nor forsake you. As long as you want to be saved He will Keep you saved. Even if you feel like slipping back into your old habbits. God will chastize you and reprove you. Your his Child. You recieved the Spirit of adoption.

The only way i believe you can get out of this relationship is to take the nails out yourself. and still then you will be haunted by the Holy ghost.


Grace is a wonderful thing. Many people dont realize the power of Grace. Cause all we are is sinners covered by grace. No one lives a perfect sinless life in the flesh (save Christ) but we are perfected in Christ, we are declared rightous through Christ

My question is how many times can a person be born again? How many times are saved then unsaved?

To be honest Your covered by Grace in the winter months just as you are in the summer months, but people say thats easy peasy grace. No, no its not. there is nothing easy about the chastizment that is comming from God to corret you.

That is what sonship is, your now a son or daughter of God. You didnt earn salvation by merit and your cant do enough merits to keep your self saved.

If Grace was sufficient to get rid of your past guilt, why do some people believe its not strong enough for your present. If grace is Good for the past and present then we can depend on grace for our future.

Today right now, i am in a luke warm state, I hate it, i do I have already started reaching out for people to pray. last time i went through a luke warm state God spit me out. Did i lose my salvation . No but it caused me to hit a place where i wanted to get back into the Love of God and Doing His will and purpose in my life.

I expect it again maybe different than last time but its a correcting love from God. Cause i to preach. i feel so alive when i preach. The Joy that i have when i give a message that God gives to me is worth more than Gold. But after i preach i get so beat up spiritually i feel worthless. Last time i preached was very hard. I am still having a hard time recovering from it.

You will meet spiritual oposition and you will hit some low points in your life field with depression, you will hit points in your life when you feel like God doesnt care, or you question if he is listening. You may even rebel against Him and kick against the Goads for a short time, But you are saved, sanctified and filled with the Holy ghost. You are a child of God. and he will bring His Children back into line of His good and pleasing will.

Very helpful post. I agree, when you preach, it's like the heat gets turned up 50 times! One time I preached at a church that had recently been through an incredibly hard storm, the pastor lost 3/4 of his congregation to his son in law who started preaching something different than the apostolic message and he brought everyone with him. I preached a message that God can still use this church and how they are right when they stand up for what's right even if everyone isn't standing with them, and then I didn't know all they had been through until after I preached there.

But on the 3 hour ride back to IBC, I feel like I spiritually just got hit by a truck. I wanted to backslide, I wanted to do anything but go back to church that night. It was crazy. But God blessed me and I made it through! Don't stop preaching His Word, because He always saves you and won't let you go.

[Sam]

It is my understanding that Saul of Tarsus surrendered to Jesus Christ on the road outside Damascus on January 25, AD 32. Three days later he was baptized in the Spirit as Ananias laid hands upon him and then was subsequently baptized in water.

He wrote an epistle (we call it the Book of Romans) to believers in Rome during the December AD 56 and January and February AD 57) time that he was in Corinth (ref Acts 20:2-3). This was a quarter of a century after he met the Lord and in that epistle he admitted that he had problems with his sinful nature. Romans chapter 6 tells us that we have died to sin and are alive to God. That is our position in Christ. Chapter 7 tells us of our current condition as we battle the old nature. It's not a pretty picture. Romans 8 is full of good stuff about the Holy Spirit and how He helps us live for God. But, right smack in the middle is Romans chapter 7 which brings us back down to earth. It is my understanding that we will always struggle with the flesh (our old man, our old nature) until we die or until we receive our new glorified bodies at the first resurrection (whichever comes first).

In my opinion, as long as you get back up and try again after a fall, that is what counts.

[jboling90]

Originally Posted by Sam

It is my understanding that Saul of Tarsus surrendered to Jesus Christ on the road outside Damascus on January 25, AD 32. Three days later he was baptized in the Spirit as Ananias laid hands upon him and then was subsequently baptized in water.

He wrote an epistle (we call it the Book of Romans) to believers in Rome during the December AD 56 and January and February AD 57) time that he was in Corinth (ref Acts 20:2-3). This was a quarter of a century after he met the Lord and in that epistle he admitted that he had problems with his sinful nature. Romans chapter 6 tells us that we have died to sin and are alive to God. That is our position in Christ. Chapter 7 tells us of our current condition as we battle the old nature. It's not a pretty picture. Romans 8 is full of good stuff about the Holy Spirit and how He helps us live for God. But, right smack in the middle is Romans chapter 7 which brings us back down to earth. It is my understanding that we will always struggle with the flesh (our old man, our old nature) until we die or until we receive our new glorified bodies at the first resurrection (whichever comes first).

In my opinion, as long as you get back up and try again after a fall, that is what counts.

amen, Romans 7 to me seems to be him talking about his current struggle, not pre conversion as some would believe.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by jboling90

amen, Romans 7 to me seems to be him talking about his current struggle, not pre conversion as some would believe.

Yes. Reading the book of Ephesians is helpful, because it is a book about overcoming. I have read it many times. It talks about putting on the mind of Christ. If you are fighting the spirit of depression because you can't believe that you are overcoming, read the book of Ephesians.

A favorite of mine in that chapter "Having done all to stand.... stand therefore"
We can overcome, and we can fight through the spirits that come against us of depression, opression, discouragement, sense of failure, (and many others) because Jesus has given us the tools we need to overcome... we just have to continue to exercise them in faith.

Another favorite scripture of mine is in Micah 7:7-8 "Therefore will I look unto the Lord; I will wait for the God of my salvation: my God will hear me. Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise: when I sit in darkness, the Lord shall be a light unto me."

[houston]

Every guy falls into willful sin. 1, 2x a day... then maybe there's a few days in between, then back at it again.