Tis So Sweet to Trust in Jesus

[Charnock]

Is anyone fully obedient to all of the commands of the Bible?
Are you fully obedient to all of the commands of the Bible?

I think the answer to both questions is no.

If perfect obedience is required we're in trouble. No one would ever be justified because no one is ever perfectly obedient.

Romans 3:10-12

10 as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one;

11 no one understands;

no one seeks for God.

12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;

no one does good,

not even one.”

The trouble is that no one, not even the best, most obedient, Christian is perfect and/or sinless. At one point or another our obedience fails to meet His standard. What happens then? Do we lose the Holy Ghost every time we fail God? Every time we make a mistake? Are we justified one moment, and Hell-bound the next, over, and over, and over, to infinity?

What a strange and dysfunctional relationship with Jesus that would be!

So sinless perfection is not the answer, because we aren't, and can't ever be, sinlessly perfect.

The answer to both of my opening questions is that obedience to the gospel (death, burial & resurrection of Jesus) appropriates the purpose of the gospel (salvation), when it is accompanied by faith in the God of the gospel. But obedience apart from the gospel, and detached from faith in the work of Christ, does not accomplish justification AT ALL.

In other words, Christ does not need our help to save. He is not weak. His work on the cross accomplished everything essential to the salvation of the world. We lay hold of that work, and it is counted to us as if we had accomplished the work, simply by fully trusting that He is who He says He is, and will do what He says He will do. This is called "faith."

In scripture-speak it's stated this way...

"And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him" Hebrews 11:6

We are justified (declared right) based upon a "faithful" relationship with Jesus Christ. "People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood (Romans 3:25)." And the very moment we trust ourselves instead of Christ, or lose faith in His work on the cross, we are in spiritual danger.

Our holiness is dependent upon His work, not ours. Our righteousness is not really ours at all, it's His. The Holy Ghost is not ours. We do not possess "it." We don't own "it." We simply allow "it" access to our hearts.

Everything that we are as Christians, and our entire identity, is based upon what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross.

What saves us from sin? Jesus.
What saves us from death? Jesus.
What saves us from Hell? Jesus.
What makes us holy? Jesus.
What makes us righteous? Jesus.
What makes us perfect? Jesus.

And He does this when we stop efforting, and start trusting.

Ephesians 2: 8,9

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

[AreYouReady?]

Excellent post.

[bbyrd009]

I agree, mostly, but must take exception to your Romans 3 quote, describing a specific time, in what I would call an obvious human allusion ("Nobody ever takes the trash out...") and ask you if you believe Christ spoke "be ye perfect, as I am perfect" in vain? Although I do mostly agree, you are still going to come up short, even if you ever sinned once, I dislike this "you can never be perfect."

"Be perfect, as I am perfect" seems to contradict this doctrine? Ty

[bbyrd009]

Ok, and these next two posts are just more of the same, really:
"Everything that we are as Christians, and our entire identity, is based upon what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross."

I agree with the "based" part, but...While I grasp why you are saying this, it seems to be saying that works is dead, have no function? Although I'm sure this wasn't your intention. If you stop there, and wait for some Rapture, say, to begin your "life," then satan wins, IMO.

I've prolly gotten my point across, but I'd appreciate some reconciliation here, with
"Christ makes us perfect," vitally true, as far as it goes, with
"Be ye perfect..." in which Christ did not seem to be saying "Accept Me" only. Peace!

[bbyrd009]

"The trouble is that no one, not even the best, most obedient, Christian is perfect and/or sinless..."

Going forward, disregarding the past, as God instructs us to do? I disagree.

"So sinless perfection is not the answer, because we aren't, and can't ever be, sinlessly perfect."

I must disagree again.

"Be ye perfect, as I am perfect."

Which is hard to apply to the unwitting sheep, in "the separation of sheep and goats," granted; but it reads as if they made the Kingdom purely on their works? Which isn't true, of course...

[Holyroller125]

Originally Posted by Charnock

Is anyone fully obedient to all of the commands of the Bible?
Are you fully obedient to all of the commands of the Bible?

I think the answer to both questions is no.

If perfect obedience is required we're in trouble. No one would ever be justified because no one is ever perfectly obedient.

Romans 3:10-12

10 as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one;

11 no one understands;

no one seeks for God.

12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;

no one does good,

not even one.”

The trouble is that no one, not even the best, most obedient, Christian is perfect and/or sinless. At one point or another our obedience fails to meet His standard. What happens then? Do we lose the Holy Ghost every time we fail God? Every time we make a mistake? Are we justified one moment, and Hell-bound the next, over, and over, and over, to infinity?

What a strange and dysfunctional relationship with Jesus that would be!

So sinless perfection is not the answer, because we aren't, and can't ever be, sinlessly perfect.

The answer to both of my opening questions is that obedience to the gospel (death, burial & resurrection of Jesus) appropriates the purpose of the gospel (salvation), when it is accompanied by faith in the God of the gospel. But obedience apart from the gospel, and detached from faith in the work of Christ, does not accomplish justification AT ALL.

In other words, Christ does not need our help to save. He is not weak. His work on the cross accomplished everything essential to the salvation of the world. We lay hold of that work, and it is counted to us as if we had accomplished the work, simply by fully trusting that He is who He says He is, and will do what He says He will do. This is called "faith."

In scripture-speak it's stated this way...

"And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him" Hebrews 11:6

We are justified (declared right) based upon a "faithful" relationship with Jesus Christ. "People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood (Romans 3:25)." And the very moment we trust ourselves instead of Christ, or lose faith in His work on the cross, we are in spiritual danger.

Our holiness is dependent upon His work, not ours. Our righteousness is not really ours at all, it's His. The Holy Ghost is not ours. We do not possess "it." We don't own "it." We simply allow "it" access to our hearts.

Everything that we are as Christians, and our entire identity, is based upon what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross.

What saves us from sin? Jesus.
What saves us from death? Jesus.
What saves us from Hell? Jesus.
What makes us holy? Jesus.
What makes us righteous? Jesus.
What makes us perfect? Jesus.

And He does this when we stop efforting, and start trusting.

Ephesians 2: 8,9

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Excellent post.

I second this, excellent post.
Now, just to play the devil's advocate...

The message is Jesus is Lord, and the proclamation is the finished work of Calvary. The gospel is not a reenacted experience, but the gospel is believing in the resurrection of Jesus Christ for our salvation. Someone does not reenact the gospel in order to meet the conditions of salvation, but you only trust, believe, and have faith in the finished work of the gospel. Paul sums up the gospel in (Romans 10:9-10): “That if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, and you believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. For with the heart one believes being made righteous [resulting in righteousness], and with the mouth you confess resulting in salvation. The scripture mentions: YOU SHALL BE SAVED. That was not might be and not could be. Romans 10:13 tells us: “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED.” That was not might be, not could be.

I asked God, “How does one obey the gospel (e.g., Rom. 10:16)?” The Holy Spirit whispered to me while reading Romans 10: “The resurrection.” This is what Paul meant when he said to obey the gospel (Romans 10:16). After this, I had a lot of assurance come upon me from the Lord. Now, I no longer have a sense of shame. Hence, no one will be put to shame (Rom. 10:11).

And, what does calling upon the name of the Lord mean?:
In the secular Greco-Roman and Hebrew culture in the first century, to “call upon” meant to give your allegiance to the person who has authority and power. To “call upon,” in the scripture Romans 10:13, means to believe, believe that Jesus is Lord, and believe that God resurrected him [Christ] from the dead (the gospel in a nutshell). To call upon the Lord means to trust in the event of Christ's resurrection as the authority 'means' of your salvation. Finally, calling on the name of the Lord means you put your trust only in Christ’s authority and work for your salvation.

God Bless

[FieryMethodist]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

"The trouble is that no one, not even the best, most obedient, Christian is perfect and/or sinless..."

Going forward, disregarding the past, as God instructs us to do? I disagree.

"So sinless perfection is not the answer, because we aren't, and can't ever be, sinlessly perfect."

I must disagree again.

"Be ye perfect, as I am perfect."

Which is hard to apply to the unwitting sheep, in "the separation of sheep and goats," granted; but it reads as if they made the Kingdom purely on their works? Which isn't true, of course...

Well said!