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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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Old 05-18-2007, 06:38 AM
Bruce Klein
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Church Leadership Part 1

Church Leadership Bruce Klein, ThD 4-07

This is for you Brother Scott.

Introduction
I wish I had had someone thirty or so years ago present this study to me before going to Bible college. It would have saved me a lot of wasted time. Not everyone is called to be a pastor when they are called to ministry. I am called to be a Bible teacher. A real Bible teacher guides a person from one level of understanding to the next level of Biblical truth. This ministry must be done in love! Correcting someone who has possibly been wrong most of their life can be a difficult ministry.

Teachers are: (Apostles, Prophets/Prophetesses, Evangelists, and Pastors are:)

“For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:” Ephesians 4:12-15

I. The Plurality of Elders is Shown for Every Church. The Greek for 'elder' is 'πρεσβύτερος'.
“And when they had ordained them elders (4245, πρεσβύτερος) in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.” Acts 14:23

“And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.” Acts 20:17

“Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:” James 5:14

“ασθενει τις εν υμιν προσκαλεσασθω τους πρεσβυτερους της εκκλησιας και προσευξασθωσαν επ αυτον αλειψαντες αυτον ελαιω εν τω ονοματι του κυριου” James 5:14

Do you have elders in your church?

How many elders do you have?

II. An Elder is a Bishop, meaning what the Bible teaches about an elder is true for a bishop and vise versa. The Greek word for 'bishop' is 'επισκοπή'. (Greek students, please notice this word for 'bishop' is feminine!)

The following are verses supporting the fact that bishops are elders.

“For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders (4245, πρεσβύτερος) in every city, as I had appointed thee: 6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. 7 For* a bishop (1984, επισκοπή) must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;” Titus 1:5-7

* ‘for, gar’ is a conjunction in Greek connecting what was preceding.

Titus was ordaining elders which are bishops in every city. In 1 Timothy 3, the requirements are about the same as recorded here in Titus.

“This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2 A bishop (1984, επισκοπή) then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;” 1 Timothy 3:1-2

Acts 20 is another section of Scripture equating bishops with elders.

“And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders (4245, πρεσβύτερος) of the church.” Acts 20:17

“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers (1985, bishop, επίσκοπος), to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.” Acts 20:28

A. What is a bishop? A bishop is a person responsible for a church who is called to one of the five ministries, Ephesians 4:11. Who is to overseer God’s work? A bishop which is another title for an elder who is a called by Jesus apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor or teacher, and a bishop/elder maybe called to more than one calling. He or she maybe called to be both an apostle and a teacher.

Jesus is both a shepherd/pastor and an overseer/bishop.

“For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.” 1 Peter 2:25

“For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick (1984, επισκοπή) let another take.” Acts 1:20

Act 1:20 For it has been written in the scroll of Psalms, Let his estate become forsaken, and he not be

living in it. And, "Let another take his overseership (1984, επισκοπή)." LXX-Psa. 68:26; Psa. 108:8; MT-Psa. 69:25; Psa. 109:8 Jay Green’s Literal Translation

“Let his days be few; and let another take his office (6486,פּקדּה).” Psalm 109:8

B. What are the Responsibilities of Elders/Bishops?
They lead the church/flock. They lead as Jesus directs. Jesus says have the church/flock do this then the elders/bishops who are one or more of the following apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors or teachers flow in their particular anointing to bring the church into understanding Jesus’ desires, and teaching how to do Jesus’ desires.

Elders/bishops are to feed the local flock.

They are not to be lords but ensamples to the flock. The younger are to submit themselves to the elder. Each bishop/elder is to be subject one to another, as they are clothed with humility. Each bishop/elder is to humble themselves under the mighty hand of God. Each will be exalted in God’s timing.

“The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away. 5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:” 1 Peter 5:1-6

C. What Does the Old Covenant Teach about Overseership, Bishops?
“Let his days be few; and let another take his office (6486, פּקדּה.)” Psalm 109:8 Written about Judas Iscariot.

Eleazar has oversight meaning he was over the Levites.

“And Eleazar the son of Aaron the priest shall be chief over the chief of the Levites, and have the oversight (6486) of them that keep the charge of the sanctuary.” Numbers 3:32

“And to the office (6486) of Eleazar the son of Aaron the priest pertaineth the oil for the light, and the sweet incense, and the daily meat offering, and the anointing oil, and the oversight of all the tabernacle, and of all that therein is, in the sanctuary, and in the vessels thereof.” Numbers 4:16

“And David distributed them, both Zadok of the sons of Eleazar, and Ahimelech of the sons of Ithamar, according to their offices (6486) in their service.” 1 Chronicles 24:3

“And under the custody and charge (6486) of the sons of Merari shall be the boards of the tabernacle, and the bars thereof, and the pillars thereof, and the sockets thereof, and all the vessels thereof, and all that serveth thereto,” Numbers 3:36

“And all the people of the land went into the house of Baal, and brake it down; his altars and his images brake they in pieces thoroughly, and slew Mattan the priest of Baal before the altars. And the priest appointed officers (6486) over the house of the LORD.” 2 Kings 11:18


Bruce A. Klein, ThD; Apostolic by revelation!

Bibleteach@hotmail.com
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  #2  
Old 05-18-2007, 06:48 AM
Bruce Klein
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Church Leadership Part 2

Church Leadership Part 2

III. Were Apostles Separate from the Elders? If one were to see written ‘surgeons and doctors were at the meeting’ would one think that surgeons are not doctors? Surgeons are doctors. Some if not all of the apostles in the Jerusalem church had been with Jesus, so they had significance having lived and worked for three or so years with Jesus. Stating ‘apostles’ with elders has meaning when one thinks that at least some of these apostles had been with Jesus. Apostles are elders when they are apart of a church.

A. Apostles and Elders in One Church
“When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.” Acts 15:2

“And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.” Acts 15:4

“And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.” Acts 15:6

Peter is an Apostle and an Elder.

“The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:” 1 Peter 5:1

“Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas: namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:” Acts 15:22

“And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.” Acts 15:23

John is an Apostle and an Elder.

“The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;” 2 John 1:1

“The elder unto the well-beloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth.” 3 John 1:1

“And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.” Acts 16:4

“And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.” Acts 21:18

B. Questions and Answers
Today, why is there typically only a pastor(s) leading a church? Where did this tradition originate? It is obviously not a Biblical teaching. Where in church history did the correct way of church leadership get confused?

What should the leadership be of a New Covenant church? It should be composed of elders being male or female who have been called to be an apostle, prophet/prophetess, evangelist, pastor, or teacher, Ephesians 4:11. Elders oversee the New Covenant church. They take care of the sheep.

Why is the pastor the boss of the church? Where is this practice found in Scripture? It is not found in Scripture. The churches are led by elders, Acts 14:23, 20:17; James 5:14, etc. The church is not led or controlled by deacons. (In most churches a ‘deacon’ is an unscriptural position. In Acts 6 the word ‘deacon’ is not found, yet it is taught as the chapter showing the responsibilities of a deacon. Without developing the entire teaching here, ‘deacon’ is the transliteration of a Greek word 'διάκονος' meaning ‘minister’. Deacon boards are very unscriptural!) A pastor who is a dictator of a church is simply wanting to control the flock. Control means power, job security, status, fleecing the flock, etc.

What happens if the plurality of elders is not the leadership structure of a church? Then the church misses out on the benefits of the ministries of the apostle(s), prophet(s)/prophetess(es), and evangelist(s). Which of these ministries is not important? Right! They are all very important!

IV. Are the elders composed of the five ministries named in Ephesians 4:11? YES

“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;” Ephesians 4:11

“και αυτος εδωκεν τους μεν αποστολους τους δε προφητας τους δε ευαγγελιστας τους δε ποιμενας και διδασκαλους” Ephesian 4:11

The following are word counts in the King James Version:
Shepherd/pastor 18 times Only mentioned 18 times, yet they by man’s tradition have become a dictator!

Apostle 80 times

Prophet 157 times

Teacher/master 97 times

Evangelist 3 times

Jesus ministers in all five callings, and Jesus is an elder.

A. An Apostle is an Elder.

Peter is an Apostle and an Elder.

“The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:” 1 Peter 5:1

John is an Apostle and an Elder.

“The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;” 2 John 1:1

“The elder unto the well-beloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth.” 3 John 1:1

B. A Pastor is an Elder/Bishop Verses were given equating bishops and elders.

Jesus is both a shepherd/pastor and an overseer/bishop.

“For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.” 1 Peter 2:25

Jesus ministers in all five callings, and Jesus is an elder.

C. Prophets and Teachers Having a Leadership Role
“Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. 3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. 4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.” Acts 13:1-4

Were they in error because they didn’t have a pastor leading their meeting? Actually a pastor is not even mentioned!!!!!!!!!

Conclusion
It is terrible to have a person who is called to be an evangelist masquerading as a pastor. The evangelist who got tired of traveling, so he decided it would be a better life being a pastor, John 10:10. He or she could care less about caring for the sheep’s physically well being. They are out to reach the lost at any cost. The sheep are starving for real meat, while the so-called pastor who is really an evangelist is preaching ‘salvation based messages’ to those who are already Christians! His excuse for meatless sermons is that his flock isn't ready for meat. Since his church has a one man show with him as the boss, will his flock arrive in heaven? Or will demons pick them off one or two at a time? Hosea 4:6!

I have been the senior pastor of three churches, so I am not against pastors. I am against man's traditions, as Jesus is against man's traditions.

“Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.” Mark 7:13

“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” Colossians 2:8

In China, my ministry was to train Chinese elders to start underground churches. They must know how to hear from the Holy Spirit moment by moment; their lives and their flock's lives are in possible danger. They could have their teeth knocked out or their tongue cut out or be tortured or even die while in prison. The Chinese elders must be taught Biblical truth. They can't have a limited church leadership structure. They can't have a dead church!

Now you have the truth. What will you do with it? If you would like to attend a church obeying this truth, please contact me.


Bruce A. Klein, ThD; Apostolic by revelation!

Bibleteach@hotmail.com
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Old 05-18-2007, 07:18 AM
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Trouvere Trouvere is offline
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Brother Klein,
Just a thought but what if the pastor/shepherd is a prophet as well.
Considering that preaching is both fortelling and forthtelling and that
prophecy is equated as the same where then would this fit in the pattern you proposed?
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Old 05-18-2007, 10:19 AM
Bruce Klein
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Hello Sister Trouvere,

All Christians are called to preach the gospel. I believe preaching is giving forth the gospel. Most commentaries call Matthew 5-7 the Sermon on the Mount. What is a sermon? On this mount Jesus taught them, Matthew 5:2. Jesus was not preaching; he was teaching. Why are most pastors preaching to Christians on Sunday morning.

As a Baptist in seminary, I was taught that a pastor's preaching is fortelling and forthtelling which is to them New Covenant prophecy.
"But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort." 1 Corinthians 14:3
The Baptist teach the pastor is the one who prophesieth for edification, exhortation, and comfort.

I have the gift of prophecy. When I prophesy, I edify, exhort, and comfort. I am not a prophet.

One must decide which is Biblical.

Some of the Roman Catholic and Protestant traditions are found in Apostolic churches.

If one were to look at the Words in the Greek, one would realize the meaning of preaching vs. teaching.

A prophet or prophetess speaks words as he/she receives them from God. The words are given by God as the prophet(ess) speaks.

In Jesus,
Brother Bruce
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Old 05-18-2007, 10:19 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Seems a pretty good teaching except how can you pull female Elders out of the qualifications for Eldership?
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Old 05-18-2007, 10:33 AM
Chan
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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Seems a pretty good teaching except how can you pull female Elders out of the qualifications for Eldership?
The elder must be the husband of one wife (Titus 1:4-6) and women can't be husbands; that's how you can pull female "elders" out of the qualifications. Now, if you meant how one can take the qualifications for elder and apply them to women, you can't!
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Old 05-18-2007, 11:52 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan View Post
The elder must be the husband of one wife (Titus 1:4-6) and women can't be husbands; that's how you can pull female "elders" out of the qualifications. Now, if you meant how one can take the qualifications for elder and apply them to women, you can't!
I did not state my question well. My point is the same as you have stated. He must be the husband of one wife. Nothing there about women being an Elder. Neither were any Apostles chosen that were female.
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Old 05-18-2007, 01:07 PM
Bruce Klein
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Well Brothers,

I will deal with the woman issue in a different study. It is 18 pages 8.5 x 11 long. Haven't figured out how to present the study.

'Junias', a woman - that's why she had a woman's name, was an apostle.
Rom 16:7 Young's Literal Translation "salute Andronicus and Junias, my kindred, and my fellow-captives, who are of note among the apostles, who also have been in Christ before me."


In Jesus,
Brother Bruce
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