Oneness Apostolics In History Video.

[Scott Hutchinson]

What do you all think of this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsS2-HLtcXQ

[seekerman]

"Oneness apostolics" such as we see within the oneness pentecostal sects today haven't existed throughout history. I doubt any one of the individuals in the video would be welcome to preach their particular salvation doctrine in the pulpit of any oneness pentecostal church.

I remember folks referring to Bernard's book "The Oneness Of God" as history of oneness pentecostalism, but of course it's not. It's just a history of various views of God throughout history, such as we saw in the video you posted.

Oneness pentecostalism with it's salvation doctrines and teachings did not exist prior to 1913. It's a relatively new Christian sect.

[Jermyn Davidson]

If all there was to being Apostolic was the beleif in ONE GOD, then I'd probably be Apostolic today.

It doesn't stop there.

The books of Acts clearly teaches that salvation is by faith-- as in that it is in our believing that our salvation is established.


There are a couple of jumps in years in the video you have posted too.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by seekerman

"Oneness apostolics" such as we see within the oneness pentecostal sects today haven't existed throughout history. I doubt any one of the individuals in the video would be welcome to preach their particular salvation doctrine in the pulpit of any oneness pentecostal church.

I remember folks referring to Bernard's book "The Oneness Of God" as history of oneness pentecostalism, but of course it's not. It's just a history of various views of God throughout history, such as we saw in the video you posted.

Oneness pentecostalism with it's salvation doctrines and teachings did not exist prior to 1913. It's a relatively new Christian sect.

We were thinking the same thing and typing at the same time!

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

If all there was to being Apostolic was the beleif in ONE GOD, then I'd probably be Apostolic today.

It doesn't stop there.

The books of Acts clearly teaches that salvation is by faith-- as in that it is in our believing that our salvation is established.


There are a couple of jumps in years in the video you have posted too.

I am Apostolic today because OF the salvation witness in Acts!

[Dante]

Apostolic movements today are a conglomeration of different denominational influences that pre-existed centuries ago.

1. Holiness is a doctrine that was the central theme of the Charles and John Wesley movements. In the last few decades those ideas have been compacted and bloated even further, and have very few roots in true Apostolic faith and practice of the first century.

2. The focus of Acts 2:38 as being the door way in to the Kingdom of God is a relatively new focus. Notice I said it's a newer focus, but it's an antique doctrine that is very obvious from Apostolic scripture. Prior to the Apostolic renewal of the last century, there were very few sects of Christendom that focused on Acts 2:38.

3. The experience of speaking in tongues has had pockets of different believers scattered throughout the world all throughout the history of the church, but there has never been as great a concentrated movement of tongues speakers as there has been the past 100+ years.

4. Water baptism has been a staple of the church from the get go. All denominations have believed in baptism of some sort; immersion, sprinkling, etc.

5. There has grown a strong emphasis of tithing as a must over the past 50 years with the sky rocketing popularity in TV preachers soliciting money from all over the country while small local churches suffer as a result of keeping this fat cats afloat. It is true that the church has always needed money, but the actual concept of tithing is a bit obscure in the context of the New Testament. That is not to negate the teaching of the NT that beseeches believers to support the local efforts of an ecclesia.

6. Salvation by grace is a doctrine that resurfaced in the 1500's by Martin Luther. As much as we don't' want to admit this, we owe a great debt of gratitude to the German reformer for standing against the Catholic churches abuse of indulgences and the idea that money and good deals could buy or work ones way out of purgatory or hell and secure salvation in to heaven.

I could continue listing so many things, but the fact of the matter is that today's "Apostolic" church is a coat-of-many-colors patched together borrowed from many pieces of cloth throughout the churches nearly 2000 years of world history.

[Michael The Disciple]

Dante

2. The focus of Acts 2:38 as being the door way in to the Kingdom of God is a relatively new focus. Notice I said it's a newer focus, but it's an antique doctrine that is very obvious from Apostolic scripture. Prior to the Apostolic renewal of the last century, there were very few sects of Christendom that focused on Acts 2:38.

You could not be more wrong. Ever heard of the Catholic Church? They have been focused on Acts 2:38 for many centuries before the Reformation. A Trinitarian version of course but nonetheless they have always taught that faith, water baptism, and Spirit baptism is the doorway into the Kingdom.

Before the Reformation of the 1500's it would be almost impossible to find groups teaching one can be saved without the baptisms of water and spirit.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

You could not be more wrong. Ever heard of the Catholic Church? They have been focused on Acts 2:38 for many centuries before the Reformation. A Trinitarian version of course but nonetheless they have always taught that faith, water baptism, and Spirit baptism is the doorway into the Kingdom.

Before the Reformation of the 1500's it would be almost impossible to find groups teaching one can be saved without the baptisms of water and spirit.

Yeah, but the RCC forgot the tongues part of the salvation mix required of an individual. You'll not find such salvation theology until after the arrival of the oneness pentecostal sect after 1913.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Dante

Apostolic movements today are a conglomeration of different denominational influences that pre-existed centuries ago.

1. Holiness is a doctrine that was the central theme of the Charles and John Wesley movements. In the last few decades those ideas have been compacted and bloated even further, and have very few roots in true Apostolic faith and practice of the first century.

2. The focus of Acts 2:38 as being the door way in to the Kingdom of God is a relatively new focus. Notice I said it's a newer focus, but it's an antique doctrine that is very obvious from Apostolic scripture. Prior to the Apostolic renewal of the last century, there were very few sects of Christendom that focused on Acts 2:38.

3. The experience of speaking in tongues has had pockets of different believers scattered throughout the world all throughout the history of the church, but there has never been as great a concentrated movement of tongues speakers as there has been the past 100+ years.

4. Water baptism has been a staple of the church from the get go. All denominations have believed in baptism of some sort; immersion, sprinkling, etc.

5. There has grown a strong emphasis of tithing as a must over the past 50 years with the sky rocketing popularity in TV preachers soliciting money from all over the country while small local churches suffer as a result of keeping this fat cats afloat. It is true that the church has always needed money, but the actual concept of tithing is a bit obscure in the context of the New Testament. That is not to negate the teaching of the NT that beseeches believers to support the local efforts of an ecclesia.

6. Salvation by grace is a doctrine that resurfaced in the 1500's by Martin Luther. As much as we don't' want to admit this, we owe a great debt of gratitude to the German reformer for standing against the Catholic churches abuse of indulgences and the idea that money and good deals could buy or work ones way out of purgatory or hell and secure salvation in to heaven.

I could continue listing so many things, but the fact of the matter is that today's "Apostolic" church is a coat-of-many-colors patched together borrowed from many pieces of cloth throughout the churches nearly 2000 years of world history.

This is all true. Good post.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Check this one out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLNRW...eature=related