Which bible/bibles gets 1 Timothy 3:16 correct?

jfrog · #1 11-03-2011, 09:02 AM

Quote:

New International Version (©1984)
Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith: Christ was revealed in a human body and vindicated by the Spirit. He was seen by angels and announced to the nations. He was believed in throughout the world and taken to heaven in glory.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

International Standard Version (©2008)
By common confession, the secret of our godly worship is great: In flesh was he revealed to sight, kept righteous by the Spirit's might, adored by angels singing. To nations was he manifest, believing souls found peace and rest, our Lord in heaven reigning!

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And this Mystery of Righteousness is truly great, which was revealed in the flesh and was justified in The Spirit; He appeared to Angels and was preached among the Gentiles; He was trusted in the world and he ascended into glory.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
The mystery that gives us our reverence for God is acknowledged to be great: He appeared in his human nature, was approved by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was announced throughout the nations, was believed in the world, and was taken to heaven in glory.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And without doubt great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

American King James Version
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

American Standard Version
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Bible in Basic English
And without argument, great is the secret of religion: He who was seen in the flesh, who was given God's approval in the spirit, was seen by the angels, of whom the good news was given among the nations, in whom the world had faith, who was taken up in glory.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And evidently great is the mystery of godliness, which was manifested in the flesh, was justified in the spirit, appeared unto angels, hath been preached unto the Gentiles, is believed in the world, is taken up in glory.

Darby Bible Translation
And confessedly the mystery of piety is great. God has been manifested in flesh, has been justified in the Spirit, has appeared to angels, has been preached among the nations, has been believed on in the world, has been received up in glory.

English Revised Version
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, received up in glory.

Webster's Bible Translation
And without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Weymouth New Testament
And, beyond controversy, great is the mystery of our religion-- that Christ appeared in human form, and His claims justified by the Spirit, was seen by angels and proclaimed among Gentile nations, was believed on in the world, and received up again into glory.

World English Bible
Without controversy, the mystery of godliness is great: God was revealed in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, and received up in glory.

Young's Literal Translation
and, confessedly, great is the secret of piety -- God was manifested in flesh, declared righteous in spirit, seen by messengers, preached among nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory!

So which of these bibles get it right? The ones that say he or God?

TGBTG · #2 11-03-2011, 09:26 AM

I think Prax has made this point over and over, but I will iterate it again...lol

15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: He was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Notice the subject of verse 15 is God. Paul is talking about the house of God, the church of God. And then Paul says in verse 16 "He was manifest..."

It only flows from normal grammar that the "He" in verse 16 is referring to God

Truthseeker · #3 11-03-2011, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG

I think Prax has made this point over and over, but I will iterate it again...lol

15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: He was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Notice the subject of verse 15 is God. Paul is talking about the house of God, the church of God. And then Paul says in verse 16 "He was manifest..."

It only flows from normal grammar that the "He" in verse 16 is referring to God

Right!

SRM · #4 11-03-2011, 09:51 AM

Paul was not writing to Timothy to explain how God became a man..but rather about the mystery of godly living and Paul demonstrates that the man Christ lived and practiced such a life for our example

Thinker · #5 11-03-2011, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRM

Paul was not writing to Timothy to explain how God became a man..but rather about the mystery of godly living and Paul demonstrates that the man Christ lived and practiced such a life for our example

.

Disagree:

Christ is not the subject matter nor is He mentioned; God is.

1Tim 4 contunues the thought. Its about God, and His ways..

1 Timothy 3:16 reveals God as Jesus Christ...

.

mfblume · #6 11-03-2011, 10:10 AM

Hoo boy. That takes a study of manuscript evidence. Basically two lines of manuscripts have come to us. The catholic ones, from which almost all modern translations are derived, and the Received text which the kjv came from.

The catholic ones are the ones referred to when we see footnotes that say such-and-such is not in the two oldest manuscripts. Those two are the codex Sinaticus and the codex Vaticanus. The Sinaiticus was found on mt Sinai in a monastery and was used for starting fires by the monks there. The Vaticanus was found on a shelf, after the Vatican had been plundering everything they could be their hands on, and no one knows where it originally came from.

Oldest is not always most accurate. Look at the oldest religious organization, the catholic church, to see that.

SRM · #7 11-03-2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinker

.

Disagree:

Christ is not the subject matter nor is He mentioned; God is.

1Tim 4 contunues the thought. Its about God, and His ways..

1 Timothy 3:16 reveals God as Jesus Christ...

.

Context is King..chapter 3 is what we are dealing with

Michael The Disciple · #8 11-03-2011, 01:34 PM

It is the battle between the Majority text and the Alexandrian text. Unfortunately the religous world has embraced the Alexandrian. The only current Bibles Im aware of based on the Majority (Byzantine) text are the King James, New King James, and the World English Bible. The King James itself is actually from a certain strand of the Majority text.

A few weeks ago I attempted a discussion on the Godhead with Matt Slick the owner of CARM. We could not get past the first round. He spent much time trying to discredit the Majority text and insisting it is false.

Altho Oneness doctrine does not stand or fall on the difference it certainly makes a difference.

Praxeas · #9 11-03-2011, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRM

Paul was not writing to Timothy to explain how God became a man..but rather about the mystery of godly living and Paul demonstrates that the man Christ lived and practiced such a life for our example

If that is true why do you argue what the word manifest means?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRM

Other versions render...HE who was manifested in flesh..besides the word MANIFEST does not mean God was a transformer and became a man to come to earth

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRM

Ignoring the point Prax..Manifest does not mean becoming a man..the Son made known His Father and God to the world.God chose to work through his only begotten just like He worked through Moses,prophets etc..God has always used "agency"

Your ansswer assumes the reading "God was manifest in flesh"...see other thread for what the word manifest means

AreYouReady? · #10 11-03-2011, 10:29 PM

From time to time I consult my Geneva 1599 Bible to see what the men of old had to say about certain scriptures. I know that old doesn't always mean accurate, but I like to get the feel of what people 500 years ago thought.

It's a little hard to read if we don't know our scriptures. The English alphabet used i's for j; u's for v's; and v's for u's.

And without controuersie, great is the mysterie of godlinesse, which is, God is manifested in the flesh, iustified in the Spirit, seene of Angels, preached vnto the Gentiles, beleeued on in the world, and receiued vp in glorie.
I Timothy 3:16 Geneva Version

Kind of reminds me of the KJV which uses the word "Easter" in Acts 12:4

And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

(Acts 12:4)KJV

And when he had caught him, he put him in prison, and deliuered him to foure quaternions of souldiers to be kept, intending after the Passeouer to bring him foorth to the people. Acts 12:4 Geneva 1599 Version

Easter is a pagan holiday always celebrated the first Sunday after the first full moon, after the Spring Equinox.

Passover sometimes coincides with pagan Easter, which would be one reason why the Catholic Church lumped Christianity's risen Christ and Jewish passover remembrance in with the pagans. Well, I digressed from the subject....