Bachmann gets called out.

[scotty]

A prominent bioethicist has offered $10,000 to charity if Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann can prove her claim that a vaccination caused mental retardation.

The topic of HPV inoculation came up Monday during a GOP debate. Afterward, Bachmann linked the vaccine to retardation, a claim vehemently disputed by medical experts.
Caplan says if Bachmann can identify a verified vaccine victim in one week, he will donate $10,000 to a charity of her choice. If not, Caplan says Bachmann should donate $10,000 to a pro-vaccine group.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...#ixzz1Y9Jqa8EF

[Hoovie]

Bad call. She made no such claim. This guy should give the money for false premise.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Bad call. She made no such claim. This guy should give the money for false premise.

Yes, she did make that claim.

http://www.breitbart.tv/bachmann-cla...l-retardation/

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Yes, she did make that claim.

http://www.breitbart.tv/bachmann-cla...l-retardation/

Perhaps you meant to post a different link? She certainly did not make such a claim in that video.

Are you questioning whether Bachman made the story up - about a mother telling her about her little girl having serious mental side effects?

In the video she does say the injection could have serious consequences and the parents need to make their own judgement. Can't imagine anyone disagreeing with that.

That is spot on I think. My own kids are not getting vaccinated.

[coadie]

The "bioethesists' are the new Pharisees in the secular world. They are who we should turn to to decide if abortion is ethical or if saying no is ethical

I favor the law. I don't favor "moral relativism"

Today we have millions of kids die that die from malaria. beciause some EPA pontification and self proclaimed "ethics"

In 2 of my professions, we have ethics exams. Go figure. Some of these "ethicists" are in the philosophy departments.

By the way, Sonofi gardasil was yanked in Spain if I remember.

I would say this guy may be on the clueless side.

Just to put this in context. I remembr a young 8 year old boy in my arms and we were denied a blood transfusion to save his life because parents were JW's and we didn't have a release for blood he needed.

My general view is the ethics should first be in the parents hands and not the outside.

Say how did the ethicists come thru for Terry Scahaivo?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by scotty

A prominent bioethicist has offered $10,000 to charity if Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann can prove her claim that a vaccination caused mental retardation.

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Bad call. She made no such claim. This guy should give the money for false premise.

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Perhaps you meant to post a different link? She certainly did not make such a claim in that video.

Are you questioning whether Bachman made the story up - about a mother telling her about her little girl having serious mental side effects?

In the video she does say the injection could have serious consequences and the parents need to make their own judgement. Can't imagine anyone disagreeing with that.

That is spot on I think. My own kids are not getting vaccinated.

I posted the correct video (2:19) based on Scotty's post and your response to it. She did make the claim that the vaccine could cause mental retardation. You said that she didn't make that claim and the video clearly shows that she does.

I believe that vaccines can have serious consequences for some children. Apparently, they don't cause all children to have serious consequences. That is why we have the debate and why we should have parental choice (opt out or opt in, if you want to play with semantics, which Perry offered).

It is erroneous for Bachmann to keep saying the children were forced to take the HPV when no child, in Texas, is being forced to take any vaccine. We have an opt out for every mandated vaccine on the immunization schedule.

My issue with Bachmann is that she is misrepresenting the opt out and continues to tout the "mandated" only.

She doesn't bring up that her state offers mandated vaccines. She doesn't bring up that her state offers mandated Heb B, which is a behavioural vaccine and you do not even have to have a parents consent to have it administered.

So, again, my issue is that she is being hypocritical and hysterical.

You know what the real issue is? That it is a vaccine involving pre-marital sex that causes cervical cancer. Look at where our society has arrived. That should be the real issue.

[Jermyn Davidson]

She made the claim.

She should admit her MISTAKE-- everyone makes mistakes.


The more I read about HPV, the more I am actually on the side of Perry for THIS specific issue.

This vaccine protects everyone-- the sexually active and those who keep their viriginities until marriage.

The rise is head & neck cancers is very alarming. At first I thought it was a military phenomenon, but now I realize it's something much bigger.


If I had children, they would be vaccinated.

As a matter of public safety, the government is fulfilling its obligation to REQUIRE vaccination.

Perry is right on this issue.

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

She made the claim.

She should admit her MISTAKE-- everyone makes mistakes.


The more I read about HPV, the more I am actually on the side of Perry for THIS specific issue.

This vaccine protects everyone-- the sexually active and those who keep their viriginities until marriage.

The rise is head & neck cancers is very alarming. At first I thought it was a military phenomenon, but now I realize it's something much bigger.


If I had children, they would be vaccinated.

As a matter of public safety, the government is fulfilling its obligation to REQUIRE vaccination.

Perry is right on this issue.

Jermyn, while I agree with vaccinations and my boys were both vaccinated, I do NOT agree that the government is obligated to require vaccinations. We had a child in our little town who was born perfect - no health issues at all. But when they got her vaccinated at 18 months, she had a HORRIBLE reaction. In the end, she basically ended up in a vegetative state. She could no longer, walk, talk, respond, even swallow. She had to be tube fed. The only thing she did on her own was breathe. And after about 2 years, even that stopped. She finally passed. After her death, her parents sued the manufacturer of the vaccination and ended up VERY wealthy. But divorced. This whole experience destroyed their marriage and their family. I know for sure that if either parent was to ever have another child, they would NEVER allow them to be vaccinated. I think they have that right.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Margies3

Jermyn, while I agree with vaccinations and my boys were both vaccinated, I do NOT agree that the government is obligated to require vaccinations. We had a child in our little town who was born perfect - no health issues at all. But when they got her vaccinated at 18 months, she had a HORRIBLE reaction. In the end, she basically ended up in a vegetative state. She could no longer, walk, talk, respond, even swallow. She had to be tube fed. The only thing she did on her own was breathe. And after about 2 years, even that stopped. She finally passed. After her death, her parents sued the manufacturer of the vaccination and ended up VERY wealthy. But divorced. This whole experience destroyed their marriage and their family. I know for sure that if either parent was to ever have another child, they would NEVER allow them to be vaccinated. I think they have that right.

That child did not receive this vaccination.

It is good for the sake of public safety to REQUIRE certain vaccinations that, if not enforced, would leave the entire society exposed to a costly and even deadly illness.


As for the early childhood vaccines that cause mental retardation, the rumors and anecdotes are simply not proven. If anything, they have been proven to be false.


Still, this thread is about Bachman, HPV and Gardasil.

She made a mistake and I agree with Perry on this issue.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I posted the correct video (2:19) based on Scotty's post and your response to it. She did make the claim that the vaccine could cause mental retardation. You said that she didn't make that claim and the video clearly shows that she does.

I believe that vaccines can have serious consequences for some children. Apparently, they don't cause all children to have serious consequences. That is why we have the debate and why we should have parental choice (opt out or opt in, if you want to play with semantics, which Perry offered).

It is erroneous for Bachmann to keep saying the children were forced to take the HPV when no child, in Texas, is being forced to take any vaccine. We have an opt out for every mandated vaccine on the immunization schedule.

My issue with Bachmann is that she is misrepresenting the opt out and continues to tout the "mandated" only.

She doesn't bring up that her state offers mandated vaccines. She doesn't bring up that her state offers mandated Heb B, which is a behavioural vaccine and you do not even have to have a parents consent to have it administered.

So, again, my issue is that she is being hypocritical and hysterical.

You know what the real issue is? That it is a vaccine involving pre-marital sex that causes cervical cancer. Look at where our society has arrived. That should be the real issue.

No this is not semantics. Bachman said someone "a lady" at the debate came to her with tears and said her daughter had serious side effects - even involving "mental retardation" after she got the vaccination. Nowhere in that video or otherwise have I ever heard Bachman herself make such a claim.

I am cool with Perry or Bachman, and yes there was an opt out - which I would use.