Time To Turn The Page...

[Jason B]

On January 23, 2000 I attended my first UPC church, that evening I was baptized in Jesus name, three weeks later I received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues, at least according to the doctrine of the UPC. It is undeniable that God has done an awesome saving work in my life, since I was not raised in church and lived an vile, dishonest, and exceedingly ungodly life prior to my conversion. It has been 11 years now, and I have no less desire to live for God, if anything I have actually become MORE conservative, though I have wholly rejected legalism.

Just over a year ago I publicly stated I believed in justification by faith and that tongues were not necesssary for salvation. Of course I have been written off not just by the church I attended and preached in, but by many of my former church friends/acqaintances. I've gone charismatic, liberal, and taken a ride on the slippery slope. I struggle to understand this, however since my relationship with God grows stronger, the time I spend in prayer and study has increased, and my desire to see the emphasis put back on the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the suffiency of the Scriptures (against experiences, blessings, organizational affirmation, and even cultural ralativism) has grown by leaps and bounds. Yet I'm charismatic, I'm liberal, and yes, even backslidden.

So then as the slippery slope goes, (Is it the slippery slope, or is it the result of investing oneself in the study of the Word and earnest prayer before God~let the argument begin....) I think its time to make a clean break from the pentecostal culture all together. I do not want more worldliness, in fact I want more godliness, more holiness, more righteousness. I don't want to turn a blind eye to sin, or allow the culture to convert me. I have 3,000+ posts, anyone can read a sampling of them to see my desire is to get closer to God, not further from Him. I want to live a life for God. I am so very thankful for the 11 years, there have been a lot of good times, and I have met some great people, many of whom I believe will be in heaven, regardless of some theological differences. Even to those who spoke evil of me, or angrily, or behind my back, I wish them well. Not only do I wish them well, I hope they are blessed, and their churches blessed, I believe they are good people, just misguided, and frankly scared into thinking that if they actually considered something other than oneness pentecostalism (and all its trappings) they would end up rebrobate.

I'm not walking out, but seeing how this is Apostolic Friends Forum, I will probably make my self scarce pretty soon. I have enjoyed posting on AFF above all other forums, and I think that there are many people here who are top notch. I have a special respect for Stephen Hoover the way he handles himself on this board as an owner/admin is admirable. Miss Brattified is filled with uncommon common sense, Digging4Truth always a favorite poster of mine, Sister Alvear a sincere and godly woman whose posts challenge us to consider our priorities in life. There are so many other posters who are a breath of fresh air, or at the very least easy to dialouge with. Lots of good folk here, so I just wanted to post not with a "goodbye cruel AFF world" or "delete my account" in fact I don't want my account deleted because I will still check in from time to time. I'm not leaving angry, its just time to turn the page.

[UnTraditional]

My friend, I have seen this coming for a while. Let me start by saying this, while I do absolutely believe in tongues as the initial evidence, I will be more than happy to fellowship with people who believe in the continued Charismatic experience. My desire is to be more like Christ, and at times, that has made me, especially recently, take some very strong stances against false doctrine.

All in all, let me state this. Do not walk out on the Pentecostal culture. I made this mistake, and it cost me so much, and I almost lost my mind. Why? because I found out through study that the more I tried to distance myself from the experiences, the more through study I could validate every single one of them, including the miraculous and the awesome, as well as the smaller ones.

I do not doubt your sincere desire to draw closer to the Lord and follow His ways. It has also caused me to reconsider many of the beliefs I once held so dear. This is why I am now ehere I am, at the Church where I am, and am again serving as a minister, both in the Church, and also to those who cannot make it to church. JB, please, do not leave pentecost, but instead let God draw you to a deeper Pentecost, a personal one, one that has a finger pointed to Christ, a heart broken and yearning before Him, and a desire to venture past what you know and what you have experienced to a future in Christ led by the Spirit, grounded in the Word.

Love ya bro.

[Hoovie]

Thanks for the kind words Jason.

I wish you well and don't become a total stranger. Check out the tithing threads from time to time!

Quite frankly, you say things about yourself in that post that I cannot say about myself. The thing is - I believe you.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

On January 23, 2000 I attended my first UPC church, that evening I was baptized in Jesus name, three weeks later I received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues, at least according to the doctrine of the UPC. It is undeniable that God has done an awesome saving work in my life, since I was not raised in church and lived an vile, dishonest, and exceedingly ungodly life prior to my conversion. It has been 11 years now, and I have no less desire to live for God, if anything I have actually become MORE conservative, though I have wholly rejected legalism.

Just over a year ago I publicly stated I believed in justification by faith and that tongues were not necesssary for salvation. Of course I have been written off not just by the church I attended and preached in, but by many of my former church friends/acqaintances. I've gone charismatic, liberal, and taken a ride on the slippery slope. I struggle to understand this, however since my relationship with God grows stronger, the time I spend in prayer and study has increased, and my desire to see the emphasis put back on the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the suffiency of the Scriptures (against experiences, blessings, organizational affirmation, and even cultural ralativism) has grown by leaps and bounds. Yet I'm charismatic, I'm liberal, and yes, even backslidden.

So then as the slippery slope goes, (Is it the slippery slope, or is it the result of investing oneself in the study of the Word and earnest prayer before God~let the argument begin....) I think its time to make a clean break from the pentecostal culture all together. I do not want more worldliness, in fact I want more godliness, more holiness, more righteousness. I don't want to turn a blind eye to sin, or allow the culture to convert me. I have 3,000+ posts, anyone can read a sampling of them to see my desire is to get closer to God, not further from Him. I want to live a life for God. I am so very thankful for the 11 years, there have been a lot of good times, and I have met some great people, many of whom I believe will be in heaven, regardless of some theological differences. Even to those who spoke evil of me, or angrily, or behind my back, I wish them well. Not only do I wish them well, I hope they are blessed, and their churches blessed, I believe they are good people, just misguided, and frankly scared into thinking that if they actually considered something other than oneness pentecostalism (and all its trappings) they would end up rebrobate.

I'm not walking out, but seeing how this is Apostolic Friends Forum, I will probably make my self scarce pretty soon. I have enjoyed posting on AFF above all other forums, and I think that there are many people here who are top notch. I have a special respect for Stephen Hoover the way he handles himself on this board as an owner/admin is admirable. Miss Brattified is filled with uncommon common sense, Digging4Truth always a favorite poster of mine, Sister Alvear a sincere and godly woman whose posts challenge us to consider our priorities in life. There are so many other posters who are a breath of fresh air, or at the very least easy to dialouge with. Lots of good folk here, so I just wanted to post not with a "goodbye cruel AFF world" or "delete my account" in fact I don't want my account deleted because I will still check in from time to time. I'm not leaving angry, its just time to turn the page.

You sound like you are an "Apostolic" in the older sense before the Holy Ghost Baptism and the revelation of Jesus' name became "a cultic doctrine of salvation" instead of Scriptural experiences available for God's children.

[CC1]

Jason,

Thanks for the post. I am glad you are not leaving completely. After 3,000 posts I think you know that AFF is a very diverse place and your doctrinal position is certainly no reason to not post and fellowship here.

[Dedicated Mind]

where wll u go? the316? carm? charismatics are us?

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

where wll u go? the316? carm? charismatics are us?

or the hot place?

Sorry - that was weak. It's bedtime!

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

My friend, I have seen this coming for a while. Let me start by saying this, while I do absolutely believe in tongues as the initial evidence, I will be more than happy to fellowship with people who believe in the continued Charismatic experience. My desire is to be more like Christ, and at times, that has made me, especially recently, take some very strong stances against false doctrine.

All in all, let me state this. Do not walk out on the Pentecostal culture. I made this mistake, and it cost me so much, and I almost lost my mind. Why? because I found out through study that the more I tried to distance myself from the experiences, the more through study I could validate every single one of them, including the miraculous and the awesome, as well as the smaller ones.

I do not doubt your sincere desire to draw closer to the Lord and follow His ways. It has also caused me to reconsider many of the beliefs I once held so dear. This is why I am now ehere I am, at the Church where I am, and am again serving as a minister, both in the Church, and also to those who cannot make it to church. JB, please, do not leave pentecost, but instead let God draw you to a deeper Pentecost, a personal one, one that has a finger pointed to Christ, a heart broken and yearning before Him, and a desire to venture past what you know and what you have experienced to a future in Christ led by the Spirit, grounded in the Word.

Love ya bro.

Thank you for your concern BP, but I'm going into this eyes wide open.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Thanks for the kind words Jason.

I wish you well and don't become a total stranger. Check out the tithing threads from time to time!

Quite frankly, you say things about yourself in that post that I cannot say about myself. The thing is - I believe you.

Thank you for your kindness, I assure you it is undeserved. I certainly won't become a total stranger.

Originally Posted by CC1

Jason,

Thanks for the post. I am glad you are not leaving completely. After 3,000 posts I think you know that AFF is a very diverse place and your doctrinal position is certainly no reason to not post and fellowship here.

Yes CC1, I do realize that, which is why I'm not leaving completely, but if I am willingly choosing to distance from the apostolic doctrine, my intention isn't to be here and try to change other peoples minds to come to the same conclusion as I have. Thats not to say I won't enter into a thread here and there and when i do, I generally don't hold back on my input, but i'm not going to be here actively refuting and questioning everything in the spirit of DA, NOW, and some of the others in the past. Basically, I am going to try to respect the beliefs of those who are pentecostal by not coming on here and refuting them. Despite the fact I seek to distance myself from the pentecostal movement, I still believe in the gifts of the Spirit, and a real Holy Ghost experience, there is so much contrived stuff and people seeking experience rather than an intimate relationship with God, that I just want to start afresh. I don't wholly reject 1 Corinthians 12-14, but I reject this genreations blantant abuses of the same, and i don't want to turn a blind eye to those things as I have for years. Wierd manifestations that I either knew, or at least was extremely suspect of as being the Holy Ghost, but I justified it in my mind, because those around me justified it, despite the fact that such things break nearly every every guidelines set out in 1 Corinthians 12-14, and even are contrary to the fruits of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22-23. I'm not mad, I'm not angry, I've just had enough of that, and I don't want to be associated with it any longer.

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

where wll u go? the316? carm? charismatics are us?

Though I post sparingly on the316 it is too liberal for me, it has become more of a sckeptics board than a christian board. Carm is okay, but its filled with militant posters, as if DA cloned himself 100 times over, and the rhetoric is unappealing to me. Cahrismatics are us? Well since I distancing from the pentecostal fold, obviously I reject in an even greater measure the charistmatics. MOST (but not all) of the things wrong with pentecost nowdays are carry overs from the charismatic churches.

To answer your question, I'm not "going anywhere." When I post, I will probably post on AFF (especially on the political threads, since what someone believes about tongues is not really an issue on that topic), I just plan to cut back alot.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Thank you for your kindness, I assure you it is undeserved. I certainly won't become a total stranger.




Yes CC1, I do realize that, which is why I'm not leaving completely, but if I am willingly choosing to distance from the apostolic doctrine, my intention isn't to be here and try to change other peoples minds to come to the same conclusion as I have. Thats not to say I won't enter into a thread here and there and when i do, I generally don't hold back on my input, but i'm not going to be here actively refuting and questioning everything in the spirit of DA, NOW, and some of the others in the past. Basically, I am going to try to respect the beliefs of those who are pentecostal by not coming on here and refuting them. Despite the fact I seek to distance myself from the pentecostal movement, I still believe in the gifts of the Spirit, and a real Holy Ghost experience, there is so much contrived stuff and people seeking experience rather than an intimate relationship with God, that I just want to start afresh. I don't wholly reject 1 Corinthians 12-14, but I reject this genreations blantant abuses of the same, and i don't want to turn a blind eye to those things as I have for years. Wird manifestations that I either knew, or at least was extremely suspect of as being the Holy Ghost, but I justified it in my mind, because those around me justified it, despite the fact that such things break nearly every every guidelines set out in 1 Corinthians 12-14, and even are contrary to the fruits of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22-23. I'm not mad, I'm not angry, I've just had enough of that, and I don't want to be associated with it any longer.

Though I post sparingly on the316 it is too liberal for me, it has become more of a sckeptics board than a christian board. Carm is okay, but its filled with militant posters, as if DA cloned himself 100 times over, and the rhetoric is unappealing to me. Cahrismatics are us? Well since I distancing from the pentecostal fold, obviously I reject in an even greater measure the charistmatics. MOST (but not all) of the things wrong with pentecost nowdays are carry overs from the charismatic churches.

To answer your question, I'm not "going anywhere." When I post, I will probably post on AFF (especially on the political threads, since what someone believes about tongues is not really an issue on that topic), I just plan to cut back alot.

It is clear you just need to go to the altar and chant "Jesus,Jesus, Jesus" over and over as loud and as fast as you can while jumping up and down.