The Origin of Allegorical Interpretation

[Truth Files]

Deceptions in the Christian church had an early start and this truth needs to be understood

Many false teachers, organizations, and movements were hatched and are still prevalent today with various slants

The underlying deceptions have resulted in a total perversion of the truths presented in the Bible and those who have been and are being deceived have willingly followed the human designs and ambitions of the deceivers

When the Lord had not returned by the end of the first century there were those of the “church” who began to allegorize the prophetic scriptures by moving away from the literal interpretations of the same

They engaged in extreme apologetics which eroded away the clear teaching of scripture and they turned the Lord’s prophetic verses related to His necessary and future intervention by His second coming into mush [examples of those who developed the hyper-allegorical method of interpretation were Augustine and Origen]

Once this behavior gained acceptance the next step was to begin appropriating power and control over the “church” [various factions of the same] and this was done by claiming that the Lord’s kingdom was already on the earth with no need for Him to return and establish His coming millennial kingdom as the Bible clearly tells

The next step was to acquire the promises given to the Lord’s nation of Israel and then to relegate Israel into the dust bin of history; and that the Lord was finished with no further intent to turn a future believing remnant part of the nation to Himself

This ploy of human design has proliferated professing Christianity over the last 2000 years and it is prevalent on the earth today

Many and various denominational factions have developed beginning with the RCC, continuing with many of the reformation movements, and even to smaller more deviant “christian” cults who have appropriated Israel’s position with the Lord for themselves

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Truth Files

Deceptions in the Christian church had an early start and this truth needs to be understood

Many false teachers, organizations, and movements were hatched and are still prevalent today with various slants

The underlying deceptions have resulted in a total perversion of the truths presented in the Bible and those who have been and are being deceived have willingly followed the human designs and ambitions of the deceivers

When the Lord had not returned by the end of the first century there were those of the “church” who began to allegorize the prophetic scriptures by moving away from the literal interpretations of the same

...Subjective reasoning.

Jesus said He would COME in the lifetimes of the "husbandmen" who abused the privileges of the vineyard and slew the Master's Son. The Pharisees perceived He spoke of them, and they were right, whereas people today think it was not them at all but people who had nothing to do with the vineyard abuse 2000 years ago.

Matthew 21:40When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 41They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. 42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. [NOT POSTPONE THE KINGDOM for 2000 years as though PLAN A FAILED and PLAN B -- THE CROSS and Church -- must be resorted to!] 44And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fal l, it will grind him to powder. 45And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

Allegory? Not at all. It is rightly dividing the word to notice the context of COMING OF THE LORD based upon Matt 21:40, spoken the day Israel rejected Jesus (hmmmmm...), speaks of a different coming than that which includes resurrection. . Was Jesus wrong? he said He would come to THOSE religious leaders and destroy them miserably and give the kingdom to another. Sounds a lot like the KINGDOM came when Jesus said it would, and was not postponed at all. The coming of the Lord in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4 is yet to come. the second coming. But Matt 21:40 was a localized coming in judgment that did indeed occur in the first century.

Matt 24 comes in context with Matt 21 and is part of the parables and sermons and remarks the Lord Jesus made ever since He was rejected in chapter 21, showing Jerusalem lost the chance and the KINGDOM WOULD GO TO ANOTHER NATION BRINGING FORTH FRUITS... the church a HOLY NATION of Jews and Gentiles!! It was not KINGDOM POSTPONEMENT but KINGDOM lost by the religious leaders and
INSTEAD GIVEN TO OTHERS.

They engaged in extreme apologetics which eroded away the clear teaching of scripture and they turned the Lord’s prophetic verses related to His necessary and future intervention by His second coming into mush [examples of those who developed the hyper-allegorical method of interpretation were Augustine and Origen]

Once this behavior gained acceptance the next step was to begin appropriating power and control over the “church” [various factions of the same] and this was done by claiming that the Lord’s kingdom was already on the earth with no need for Him to return and establish His coming millennial kingdom as the Bible clearly tells

Jesus said the Kingdom was at hand 2000 years ago, along with John the Baptist. We are born again into the Kingdom by water and Spirit. We have been seated with Christ in heavenly places.

There is a blinding veil that has been thrown over the church by an 1830 dispensationalist doctrine that says the KINGDOM WAS POSTPONED, as though PLAN B had to come into effect because PLAN A with Israel failed due to the cross. Think of it! Disp. teaches PLAN A FAILED because there was a cross!

Do many here on the forum believe PLAN A was that the cross never occur so Israel's Kingdom would not be postponed like Dispensationalism teaches?

Does everyone see how this makes the church a parenthesis in God's overall plan, as though Israel, and not the church, is primary concern to God?

Does anyone see how this conflicts with what Paul said in teaching that the church is the mystery hidden from ages where Jew and Gentile are in ONE BODY reconciled to God by the cross? Paul taught that the church is the means by which God shall show his manifold wisdom throughout ages to come

Ephesians 2:6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

The Kingdom has not come yet?

Acts 2 shows Peter teaching Christ fulfilled the promise to David that the fruit of his loins would sit on his throne by raising Christ up to sit at the right hand throne. Christ is said in Eph 1 to be seated over EVERY NAME AND POWER ALREADY, now and in the ages to come. What throne is left for Him to sit upon if he uis already on the throne over EVERYTHING to ever be ruler over?

Ephesians 1:18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Teachers who deny the Kingdom is already in effect and has been for 200 years are blinded to what Paul prayed their eyes would be opened to see -- The same power that put Christ on the throne is directed towards us. THIS is why Ep 2:5-6 says we are seated together with Him in heavenly places. If the power towards us is according to the power with which Christ was seated on the throne, then we might as well say we are seated together with Him!

And we are seated with him OVER EVERY NAME THAT IS NAMED IN THIS WORLD. Sounds like Kingdom to me!!!

But the disp. teaching relies carnally upon what is physically seen and not spiritually seen with "eyes of understanding". Because they do not physically see Christ on the throne, they think He has not yet sat upon it. They miss the fact that CHRIST IS SEATED AND RULES UNTIL (not "after") all enemies are beneath His feet (1 Cor 15:25; Psalm 110:1-2). The great KINGDOM SEATING noted in Pslam 110:1 was the most oft-quoted passage from the Old Testament ever to be found in the New Testament! And this truth is watered down to not be THE KINGDOM seating that Disp. claims is POSTPONED for at least 2000 years because the cross occurred, as though the CROSS was not PLAN A from the start!

Dispensationalism claims the CROSS WAS PLAN B, because PLAN A (Israel accepting the Lord wholesale 2000 years ago) failed! Do we really want to believe that by saying the KINGDOM did not come like Jesus said it was at hand to come??

The next step was to acquire the promises given to the Lord’s nation of Israel and then to relegate Israel into the dust bin of history; and that the Lord was finished with no further intent to turn a future believing remnant part of the nation to Himself

Here is where a strawman argument is related. It is not true that the promises to national Israel are gone to dust. They were all fulfilled in Joshua 21, and any prophecies to Israel, such as Jer 31:31 where the NEW COVENANT IS SAID TO BE FOR ISRAEL AND JUDAH are fulfilled in the church, with the GENTILES JOINING ISRAEL, not replacing Israel. The Gentiles were grafted onto the Olive Tree of Israel! Nothing went to dust!

This ploy of human design has proliferated professing Christianity over the last 2000 years and it is prevalent on the earth today

Many and various denominational factions have developed beginning with the RCC, continuing with many of the reformation movements, and even to smaller more deviant “christian” cults who have appropriated Israel’s position with the Lord for themselves

The BIBLE says the promises were made to Israel via the CHILDREN OF PROMISE who are counted for the seed. ONLY TWO PEOPLE were heir to the Promises to Israel. Abraham and his seed Jesus. And EVERYONE, Jew or Gentile, baptized into Jesus is the seed of Abraham!

Satan has long hated the concept of a CHURCH IN KINGDOM POWER. So he has proposed false teachings pawned off as late as our brother's 1830 dispensationalism by non-Spirit-filled people just before the Spirit outpouring to later come, in order to stop what he knew would be his worst nightmare in seeing Spirit-filled believers rise up in Kingdom power NOW and disallow his wickedness from spreading. Have them sit back and think the kingdom has been postponed, making Jesus a dummy as though His words about it being at hand 2000 years ago were said too hastily in mistaken expectation.

The CHURCH is for JEW AND GENTILE TOGETHER NOW! Not for Israel to remain OUTSIDE THE CHURCH and not saved til after the rapture. God help us.

It only appeases the stalwart mind stuck on a viewpoint they were raised with to accuse those of different persuasions that they have an ulterior motive.

[Truth Files]

"Subjective reasoning"

>No .... Biblical truth

>Your foundational replacement theology does not satisfy the biblical presentation of Israel from the nation's beginning to the nation's projected future .... and the nation's separate purpose apart from the Lord's church of today

>The Lord has a purpose for preserving a believing remnant part of His nation of Israel .... you do not seem to know this, or understand the reason which is clearly spelled in scripture

>And by the way, He is an Israelite by His humanity .... don't forget this [Revelation 5:5]

>Also, it is not good for one to boast against the branches .... there is a marked difference between national Israel and the gentile nations [Romans 11]

>There is way too much evidence recorded in scripture for you to sweep a remnant of ethnic national Israel [separate from the Lord's church] from the setting of the time of the end of this present age under the rug .... when you do this you are standing against His purposes [I could site dozens of scriptures that refute your thinking]

>If one references all of the content of the O.T. record of unfulfilled prophecy and the Lord's own projections in the N.T. and attempts to put the "church" in the applicable verses instead of the literal definition of Israel given, the results produced cannot be reconciled .... total confusion

>I would suggest that you do this yourself in each and every case and present your findings on this forum since you are convinced otherwise

>And you need to think about the disparity between what you have been taught and scriptural truth on this matter .... there is something very wrong with the picture and I suspect that there is even more attached baggage included in your association that you follow ... you should re-evaluate your position for your own sake

>The serious and long standing student of the scriptures should have no difficulty discovering the Lord's intent with his nation of Israel apart from today's church .... but you do, and I see a distinct problem with this

>I am not passing judgment ..... just a friendly suggestion based upon what I see in your posting above

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Truth Files

"Subjective reasoning"

>No .... Biblical truth

So you say. You are knee-jerk reacting to a view you never researched properly. Everyone says what you do when a different view they never understood nor were origianlly taught is presented. Please see this.

>The Lord has a purpose for preserving a believing remnant part of His nation of Israel

The remnant counts fro the whole. Believing Israel is in the church.

>And by the way, He is an Israelite by His humanity .... don't forget this [Revelation 5:5]

Jesus was the only one aside from Abraham to inherit the promises. And it was by BIRTH, yes. But everyone else must be baptized into Christ spiritually to become Israel.

>Also, it is not good for one to boast against the branches .... there is a marked difference between national Israel and the gentile nations [Romans 11]

Where have I said anything where i boasted against the branches? I have taught WE JOINED THEM. We were combined with Israel, since the New Covenant, not a millennium covenant, was for Israel and Judah, and it opened up to the gentiles to make us fellowcitizens and no longer aliens from the commonwealth of Israel.

>There is way too much evidence recorded in scripture for you to sweep a remnant of ethnic national Israel [separate from the Lord's church] from the setting of the time of the end of this present age under the rug .... when you do this you are standing against His purposes

ETHNIC ISRAEL was saved since the covenant was FOR THEM and opened up for us as well. You are p[resenting strawmen arguments since they do not apply to what I believe as though I think ethnic Israel is out of the picture. Please hear it: Replacement theology is error. WE WERE JOINED to Israel. Unbelieving Israel must simply believe and get back on the tree without any rapture required to do so. the church IS NOT A GENTILE CHURCH.

>If one references all of the content of the O.T. record of unfulfilled prophecy and attempts to put the "church" in the applicable verses instead of the literal definition of Israel given, the results produced cannot be reconciled .... total confusion

I see all these remarks but I have quoted scripture showing the apostles viewed all prophecy to Israel as fulfilled in the church, not to replace Israel but fulfilled TO Israel in the church.

>I would suggest that you do this in each and every case and present your findings on this forum since you are convinced otherwise

Been there and done that. Please be open to consider you may be wrong, for this is being a true Berean, and not just look to see where I might be wrong since you disagree. And please understand what we actually believe so no more strawmen are in the fray.

[Truth Files]

Sorry can't agree with your answer .... our views are miles apart on this matter

.... one is correct and the other is diametrically opposing

There can only be one that is the correct rendering

Good luck with your journey

[mizpeh]

Paul did some allegorical interpretation in Galatians regarding the 2 covenants.

[Truth Files]

"Paul did some allegorical interpretation in Galatians regarding the 2 covenants."

>There is some allegory used in scripture [and example would be a parable], but what I refer to in the OP is the extreme use of interpretive allegory used to explain away the literal by those who bend scriptural truth to fit pre-conceived dogmas

>I will give one significant example [there are many]:

>Zechariah 14 is a literal account of future unfulfilled prophecy regarding Israel, the surrounding nations, and the Lord's intervention to bring His coming millennial kingdom on the earth

>The preterist [historical view] will say that all of this has already taken place and will relate it to the Roman invasions of 70 A.D.

>When asked about the splitting of the Mount of Olives [which has never taken place in the past], the preterist will relegate this event to allegory and symbolism and refuse to recognize it as a literal and future event .... and therefore all of the vision is past tense

>Using allegory and the figurative method of interpretation when convinent in order to protect a pre-conceived dogma is false teaching .... those who do this switch back and forth from the literal to the allegorical

>All Bible prophecy must be taken literally and when any allegory and symbolism is used in the text this is always explained literally either in the same passage of scripture or in other scriptures related to the same topic

>It is important for the believer to study, learn, and understand the Lord's Word to the greatest extent possible for themselves ..... this can be done

>Otherwise, one can be led off by those who come to deceive and to pervert [Matthew 24:4-5; 2Peter 2; 3; 2Timothy 3; 4]

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Truth Files

Sorry can't agree with your answer .... our views are miles apart on this matter

.... one is correct and the other is diametrically opposing

There can only be one that is the correct rendering

Good luck with your journey

Be Berean and check it out.

Proverbs 18:13He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Truth Files

"Paul did some allegorical interpretation in Galatians regarding the 2 covenants."

>There is some allegory used in scripture [and example would be a parable],

Paul used Hagar to represent natural Israel and the Old Covenant and SARAH to represent the church and the New Covenant. Ishmael is then the unbelieving Jews who follow Moses and Isaac is the believing Jews and Gentiles, making the Gentiles who are saved more "ISRAELITE" than unbelieving Jews in God's eyes.

but what I refer to in the OP is the extreme use of interpretive allegory used to explain away the literal by those who bend scriptural truth to fit pre-conceived dogmas

This is what Disp has done with the many AT HAND references in Revelation, to name just one example.

>I will give one significant example [there are many]:

>Zechariah 14 is a literal account of future unfulfilled prophecy regarding Israel, the surrounding nations, and the Lord's intervention to bring His coming millennial kingdom on the earth

No "literal" millennium is mentioned in Zech 14. Rivers of living water were said by Christ to be the baptism of the Holy Ghost. What futurism accuses in extreme allegory of scripture in partial preterism is actually partial preterism's acceptance of BIBLE-BASED interpretations, such as the rivers of living water said by JESUS to be the Holy Ghost baptism. Most all futurists ignore these claims we make as though we never said them. We cannot nor DO NOT make ONE interpretation of ANY picture in the bible without explicit and self-evident statements in the bible itself, like the river of living water being the Spirit.

Futurism ignores the absolute necessity of interpreting Revelation by the rest of the Bible instead of newspapers in a National Enquirer manner. Revelation is based upon God's intentional mirror of Exodus and Ezekiel, for example. The mark of the beast is satan's answer to God's law that Deut 6 was said to be on the forehead and hand of Israel. Futurism literalizes what is plain biblical imagery when one finds is plain by knowing the Old Testament enough to recognize it. Exodus shows the image of the beast, the golden calf, worshipped while God's law is said to be given to Israel on the forehead and hand, as ETCHED on stone ("MARK" is "ETCHING" in Greek in Rev 13). As Moses told those on God's side to come to him and stand on Sinai and Levites came, there are 144,000 who stand with the Lamb on Zion. And as 3,000 fell that day in death, as opposed to standing with Moses, Babylon is FALLEN IS FALLEN in Rev 14:8. As the beast puts his mark on the foreheads and hands of sinners, the Name of the Father is on the foreheads of the 144,000.

Without proper working knowledge of what are otherwise obscure Old Testament passages, one will not see the OBVIOUS biblical imagery used in the Old Testament when one reads Revelation. Thus, biblical ignorance, plainly put, is the reason dispensationalism exists. John's readers knew more of the entire Old Testament than believers today know of ONE BOOK of the Old Testament. they readily saw these correlations when believers today fall for pop-prophecy's pulp fiction books on Left Behind.

>The preterist [historical view] will say that all of this has already taken place and will relate it to the Roman invasions of 70 A.D.

>When asked about the splitting of the Mount of Olives [which has never taken place in the past], the preterist will relegate this event to allegory and symbolism and refuse to recognize it as a literal and future event .... and therefore all of the vision is past tense

No, the preterist will resort to the plain use of biblical imagery and prophetic poetry such as found in 2 Sam 22 and Isa 34:6 where a sword is made "fat" with "blood" as though it could eat. Literalizing Revelation is like literalizing Isa 34 and 2 Sam 22. WE GIVE NO interpretation outside of already used imagery within the BIBLE itself, as with Jesus saying the river of living water is the Spirit.

>Using allegory and the figurative method of interpretation when convinent in order to protect a pre-conceived dogma is false teaching .... those who do this switch back and forth from the literal to the allegorical

This is ironically a typical preconceived-doctrinal response of closed-mindedness that disobeys Prov 18:13's admonition to check out a belief before answering it as wrong. When a person refuses to consider they might be wrong and that just perhaps God is trying to present the truth by someone with an opposing view, they actually have the same preconception of not possibly being wrong as they accuse ALL OPPOSING VIEWS as having.

Revelation1 :1 is said to be SYMBOLIC by the use of the term SIGNIFIED. SIGN-IFIED. Prophecies of the bible from front to back use prophetic language of poetry. the New Testament does not differ from that Old testament use. The interpretations are not "up for grabs" but must ONLY be taken from clear plain use of them by biblical characters themselves, again as Jesus showed with the river of living water being the Spirit.

>All Bible prophecy must be taken literally and when any allegory and symbolism is used in the text this is always explained literally either in the same passage of scripture or in other scriptures related to the same topic

Revelation said it is imagery by use of term SIGNIFIED. And ANYTHING not otherwise interpreted already for us, as in Revelation doing so VERY FEW TIMES, must be referenced with the USE OF HE PICTURE in the Old Testament to understand it.

>It is important for the believer to study, learn, and understand the Lord's Word to the greatest extent possible for themselves ..... this can be done

Amen. One has to have a good working knowledge of the Old Testament and a good understanding of what doctrinally cannot be true from the Lord's and the Apostles' teachings on Israel and Kingdom, etc.

>Otherwise, one can be led off by those who come to deceive and to pervert [Matthew 24:4-5; 2Peter 2; 3; 2Timothy 3; 4]

AMEN!!!!!

[Truth Files]

Same answer regarding your attachments to my postings .... you are waisting your time with your brand of replacement theology .... I'll bet David MacPherson loves your contribution to his own rantings