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05-31-2011, 07:18 PM
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Eternal/Temporary torture
UR advocates plea that Eternal Torment/Suffering is evil and therefore God is not Evil therefore the bible can't possibly teach it
Just curious, is temporary torture/suffering evil or good since we are going to pin morality to the topic?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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05-31-2011, 11:03 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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Re: Eternal/Temporary torture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
UR advocates plea that Eternal Torment/Suffering is evil and therefore God is not Evil therefore the bible can't possibly teach it
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so evil is saying God is evil? problem is we have grown up in sin, sin is a norm to us, we live around, see it on a daily bases, and have been a part of it. being honest were use to it.
we are all sinners. But God is Holy, and we really do not have any kind of perspective or a illustration of how sin effects a Holy God.
God has a Holy hatred of Sin, Its not a part of His nature, and i would suggest the Most foriegn thing to HIm.
So its hard to have any kind of perspective on How sin effects a Holy God. we know he hates it but to what extreme.. and what we consider extreme may not be extreme for Him, cause He is Holy.
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05-31-2011, 11:20 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
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Re: Eternal/Temporary torture
Quote:
Originally Posted by acerrak
so evil is saying God is evil? problem is we have grown up in sin, sin is a norm to us, we live around, see it on a daily bases, and have been a part of it. being honest were use to it.
we are all sinners. But God is Holy, and we really do not have any kind of perspective or a illustration of how sin effects a Holy God.
God has a Holy hatred of Sin, Its not a part of His nature, and i would suggest the Most foriegn thing to HIm.
So its hard to have any kind of perspective on How sin effects a Holy God. we know he hates it but to what extreme.. and what we consider extreme may not be extreme for Him, cause He is Holy.
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And that describes the entire error of UR basis.... Assuming what God will or will not do,as though the human mind can comprehend and predict his ways.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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06-01-2011, 12:20 AM
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crakjak
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: dallas area
Posts: 7,605
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Re: Eternal/Temporary torture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
UR advocates plea that Eternal Torment/Suffering is evil and therefore God is not Evil therefore the bible can't possibly teach it
Just curious, is temporary torture/suffering evil or good since we are going to pin morality to the topic?
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Most UR does not prescribe to torture, rather the fire is symbolic of the purifying of gold or silver. The presence of the holy God will cause us all to be able to see His holiness, and to know it is lovely and true, and all that is unlike Him will be removed in one terrifying moment. How long a moment, I don't know since we will be outside of time. How would you describe a wise and just father's punishment of a disobedient child? Certainly not torture.
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06-01-2011, 12:26 AM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,787
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Re: Eternal/Temporary torture
Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak
Most UR does not prescribe to torture, rather the fire is symbolic of the purifying of gold or silver. The presence of the holy God will cause us all to be able to see His holiness, and to know it is lovely and true, and all that is unlike Him will be removed in one terrifying moment. How long a moment, I don't know since we will be outside of time. How would you describe a wise and just father's punishment of a disobedient child? Certainly not torture.
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You didn't answer the question.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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06-01-2011, 12:26 AM
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crakjak
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: dallas area
Posts: 7,605
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Re: Eternal/Temporary torture
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
And that describes the entire error of UR basis.... Assuming what God will or will not do,as though the human mind can comprehend and predict his ways.
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Fact is, we all make assumptions about what God will do, we all take license to interpret scripture. We use our training, experience and "human mind" to comprehend and understand his ways. Or maybe you have some other method unsual to man???
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06-01-2011, 12:28 AM
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crakjak
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: dallas area
Posts: 7,605
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Re: Eternal/Temporary torture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
You didn't answer the question.
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I proposed a different question, because I believe your premise is mistaken.
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06-01-2011, 02:05 AM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,787
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Re: Eternal/Temporary torture
Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak
I proposed a different question, because I believe your premise is mistaken.
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I'll ask again,
If Eternal Torture is evil and a God that tortures people for Eternity, making them suffer, is evil then what about temporary torture? Is that evil? is it evil to make someone suffer for any period of time?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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06-01-2011, 06:33 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,888
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Re: Eternal/Temporary torture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
I'll ask again,
If Eternal Torture is evil and a God that tortures people for Eternity, making them suffer, is evil then what about temporary torture? Is that evil? is it evil to make someone suffer for any period of time?
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I have made my kids suffer for a period of time with a belt, am I evil?
I do think you have a good question.
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.
The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
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06-01-2011, 06:35 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,664
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Re: Eternal/Temporary torture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker
I have made my kids suffer for a period of time with a belt, am I evil?
I do think you have a good question.
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Jesus did state that we being evil no how to give good gifts to our kids, how much more will God Give if we ask for the Holy Spirit
he also said none is good except God
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