Jim Jones manipulated thousands of people, and over 900 people perished on this island they thought was paradise.
We just watched, "American Experience: Jonestown: The Life and Death of Peoples Temple"
This was one of the most heart wrenching films I have ever seen. If we avoid the facts of this kind of atrocity, we are guilty of the same. These people were drawn into the Pentecostal movement at the exact same time I was. They worshipped, danced, spoke in tongues, and loved God with a deep passion.
I was left speechless and in tears. One woman, who lived to tell the story, lost 4 of her children and other relatives. This is Religion gone mad!!!
From what Ive read JJ rejected all traditional forms of Christianity and the bible.
JJ was a communist with a morbid fascination growing up of death (from Wikipedia)
and apparently nobody heard him speak in tongues
In the Pentecostal religion, there's a list of nine signs to prove you have the gift of the spirit: the word
of wisdom, the word of knowledge, faith, gifts of healing, working of miracles, prophecy, discerning
spirits, diverse tongues and the interpretation of tongues. Jones claimed all nine but he never wanted
to prove his power of speaking in tongues; he concentrated on discerning, healing and prophesying.
When it came to his healing powers, Jones admitted deception was a big part of the scene. A part of
his staff would search out information on people who would be attending his church and with this
information he would deceive people with his so called "powers". Eventually he followed a legal
disclaimer and he would frequently say to a "healed" person that he or she had a spirit blessing but to
go and consult his or her doctor for confirmation. Another power of Jones was the power of
prophecy. Now whether or not his prophecies came true, his followers (or himslef) would explain an
intervention for the cause of their struggle or that the person in question did not live up to the
possibilities Jones had foreseen. http://www.caic.org.au/biblebase/apocolyptic/jones.htm
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
The whole story is weird. Jonestown was not at all a "religion" in the normal sense of the word. There is even talk that Jones was working with the CIA on mind control experiments. Ya just never know. I wouldn't compare Jonestown with a "normal" cult.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
I spent a couple of months in Guyana. they do NOT talk about it AT ALL.
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
The whole story is weird. Jonestown was not at all a "religion" in the normal sense of the word. There is even talk that Jones was working with the CIA on mind control experiments. Ya just never know. I wouldn't compare Jonestown with a "normal" cult.
ILG, have you seen this documentary? It was produced in 2006 and tells the story from the ground up. I was stunned!
It was a Religion in the beginning stages, and Jim Jones was a powerful figure in Politics and Faith.
I kid you not, when people walked into one of his services, you thought you were in an Apostolic Church. The singing, the preaching, the shouting, the healings; it was a very spiritual experience.
What is a very sobering thought for me is, I was living in the Bay Area during this "Revival". I was young and vulnerable and could have easily been drawn into this trap.
I mentioned to my wife this morning, manipulation brought down a couple of notches from Jim Jones is still manipulation, and the first Apostolic Church I attended (and others later in life) used tactics that were deeply based off of fear; in other words, manipulation.
The people left in the wake of these movements suffer for the rest of their lives. Their mind and spirit are never the same, and the psychological damage is sometimes beyond repair, and this includes people in the Apostolic movement such as ours.
I promise you, if you watch this film you will never be the same.
I spent a couple of months in Guyana. they do NOT talk about it AT ALL.
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Ferd, have you seen the film? This documentary if full of live testimonies from people who survived this catastrophe.
The tears and brokenness in my spirit is beyond explanation.
ILG, have you seen this documentary? It was produced in 2006 and tells the story from the ground up. I was stunned!
It was a Religion in the beginning stages, and Jim Jones was a powerful figure in Politics and Faith.
I kid you not, when people walked into one of his services, you thought you were in an Apostolic Church. The singing, the preaching, the shouting, the healings; it was a very spiritual experience.
What is a very sobering thought for me is, I was living in the Bay Area during this "Revival". I was young and vulnerable and could have easily been drawn into this trap.
I mentioned to my wife this morning, manipulation brought down a couple of notches from Jim Jones is still manipulation, and the first Apostolic Church I attended (and others later in life) used tactics that were deeply based off of fear; in other words, manipulation.
The people left in the wake of these movements suffer for the rest of their lives. Their mind and spirit are never the same, and the psychological damage is sometimes beyond repair, and this includes people in the Apostolic movement such as ours.
I promise you, if you watch this film you will never be the same.
this post is proof (to me anyway) of one of my primary theories of what went on in the 1970s.
Fear was everywhere and we let that creep into the church to get big numbers in the alters.
it was terrible and left us all kinds of messed up.
we came up around the same time and had some similar experience. I think that fear and your rejecting of it played a part in your rethinking your doctrine.
Somehow I have been able to seperate the idiocy of the time from doctrin and thus remain what I have always been doctrinally speaking.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I believe this is the same one I watched not too long ago. I know Jones used Pentecostal techniques. I don't think he could have converted a fundamentalist Christian. It is amazing the similarities to the apostolic church in manipulative practice (but not doctrine).
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
this post is proof (to me anyway) of one of my primary theories of what went on in the 1970s.
Fear was everywhere and we let that creep into the church to get big numbers in the alters.
it was terrible and left us all kinds of messed up.
we came up around the same time and had some similar experience. I think that fear and your rejecting of it played a part in your rethinking your doctrine.
Somehow I have been able to seperate the idiocy of the time from doctrin and thus remain what I have always been doctrinally speaking.
Ferd, even I suffer from the bondage of Organized Faith that used fear to persuade. To this day, I have a hard time trusting anyone. I feel I was violated and abused as a young man, when my mind was fresh and unlearned.
I have friends today who I'm still in contact with that came from that Church years ago, and the damage is beyond repair.
I think most Religions of the World fall into this, and using Hell or other means of fear to convince people to do the right thing is wrong. This is one reason why I don't even believe in Hell, or Eternal Damnation. I believe the Church drew into this form of an idea to manipulate people.
Think about it; manipulation is about fear and the unseen or unproven. When you combine these two elements, people's minds are destroyed and abused by a false precipice.
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