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  #1  
Old 03-01-2011, 02:01 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Posts: 31,124
Reporting in....

Reporting In…

I don’t know if anyone knows my story or not so I’ll offer some details. I left the UPCI church I had been attending and started attending a mainstream non-denominational church. THEY ARE DEEP. The pastor of this church is preaching through the entire Gospel of John right now. He began the first Sunday of January and it’s now March; last Sunday we finally got into the second chapter of John. He estimates it will take us two years to adequately cover the Gospel of John. I was absolutely astounded by what he was able to bring out of the first chapter of John. Two months of in-depth study.

The house church network associated with the church is covering the entire book of Hebrews. It’s a little more general but we’ll be in it a few months.

What I’ve realized in this church is that the focus is on humility and death to “self”, embracing Grace, and living in total surrender to Christ. This leads us down the road of deepening our prayer life and seeking to be Christlike. I’ve also spent some time examining a few Christian forums and talking with mainstream believers about various spiritual issues. Their focus is always prayer and intimacy with Jesus. They don’t dress like Apostolics traditionally dress. They don’t have the “chicken dance”. In the main sanctuary there are nearly 2,000 people seated while the pastor unfolds the Scriptures… and you can almost hear a pin drop. They are SERIOUS about the Bible and worship. Not to the point of hype and emotionalism… but serious about communing with the Spirit and understanding God’s Word.

When I come to an Apostolic forum I’m a little disturbed. I’m read constant disputes about “standards”. I’m hearing variant teachings on ESSENTIALS clashing. The disharmony is something I never really noticed until now. It’s almost deafening. The debate about hair is almost stomach churching. I actually felt dizzy. The instability and debate seems rampant. And this isn’t debate on Calvinism vs. Arminianism, this is debate on essentials of the Apostolic faith and standards vs. standards vs. standards. Very little is focused on allowing Jesus to live through you and becoming one with Him as intimately as what I’m learning in this new church. The notion of “Grace” often appears non-existent. Where did “Grace” go?

It almost seems like each of us has our own religion.

Why so much disharmony among those claiming to be filled with the Holy Ghost? It greatly troubles me. As I learn more about grace and intimate fellowship with Christ and other believers, I’m feeling that I need to bring my understanding back to my Apostolic friends and associates. I’ve posted a few things regarding grace and practicing the presence of Christ… yet they don’t seem to get as much attention as uncut hair or questions about churches changing standards. Having stepped outside and coming back in…. I’m seeing some very upsetting things. Pleas share your thoughts.

Grace is only greasy if you can easily slip through the Father’s hands.
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  #2  
Old 03-01-2011, 02:21 PM
Dagwood Dagwood is offline
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Re: Reporting in....

Yet another great post that deserves a standing ovation. Thank God for people with God-given, spiritual common sense...
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  #3  
Old 03-01-2011, 02:25 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Reporting in....

We seem to be obsessed with what is right and what is wrong. As a Christian our obsession should be living in Christ Jesus, allowing Him to live through us. If this is done, victory is assured, for how can Christ sin???

In sports they say that to be victorious in the game we have to keep our eyes on the ball, be one with the ball... be the ball. The Christian walk isn't much different. To be a victorious Christian we have to keep our eyes on Jesus, be one with Jesus... BE JESUS.

If we do this... everything will fall into the right place.

God doesn't want us to be good Apostolics or good Pentecostals. The Father desires that we be like Jesus. This is only possible if we partake in His divine nature and experience a spiritual oneness with Him. Oneness is more than a doctrine... it's a way of life.
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  #4  
Old 03-01-2011, 02:52 PM
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AmericanAngel AmericanAngel is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southwest, La.
Posts: 917
Re: Reporting in....



standing up, clapping....Hugs! U R not alone....
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Rom.8:38,39-For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither heigth nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to seperate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


I AM the VOICE of REASON and SANITY around here!

I am now on FB and on the AFF's on FB!
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  #5  
Old 03-01-2011, 03:00 PM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: AZ
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Re: Reporting in....

We left the UPC in the late 80's and broke virtually all contact with the org. The about 7 years ago when the Passion came out I became curious what my old stomping grounds thought of it since every Christian denomination was pushing it so heavily. I was only slightly surprised that the official UPCI web site made zero reference to it although I found plenty of individual church web sites (in the UPC) that did. This is when I joined the Apostolic Man message board (of which Chris is very familiar with). A great group of guys for the most part but having been out of the church for 20 years it was a bit like getting hit in the face with a bucket of freezing water seeing the same culture again. Even the terminology and phrases were the same such as: authority, submission, permission, backslid, backsliding, uncut (you know what), pastor (usually used in combination with the first three words), holy ghost -always used with 'with evidence of other tongues', separation, holiness, oneness, trinitarian, and the list goes on. In fact the only time I ever heard the word Jesus was in reference to baptism. I never realized these UPC power words were so distinct to that particular culture until i was out of it for many years.
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  #6  
Old 03-01-2011, 04:21 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Reporting in....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne View Post
We left the UPC in the late 80's and broke virtually all contact with the org. The about 7 years ago when the Passion came out I became curious what my old stomping grounds thought of it since every Christian denomination was pushing it so heavily. I was only slightly surprised that the official UPCI web site made zero reference to it although I found plenty of individual church web sites (in the UPC) that did. This is when I joined the Apostolic Man message board (of which Chris is very familiar with). A great group of guys for the most part but having been out of the church for 20 years it was a bit like getting hit in the face with a bucket of freezing water seeing the same culture again. Even the terminology and phrases were the same such as: authority, submission, permission, backslid, backsliding, uncut (you know what), pastor (usually used in combination with the first three words), holy ghost -always used with 'with evidence of other tongues', separation, holiness, oneness, trinitarian, and the list goes on. In fact the only time I ever heard the word Jesus was in reference to baptism. I never realized these UPC power words were so distinct to that particular culture until i was out of it for many years.
I've been attending the same UPC for nearly 25 years. I love it. I can't remember the last time I heard those words used except for Holy Spirit (biblical) and Holiness (also biblical) but not usually in the context of how we dress but our entire life. I hear the name Jesus all the time!
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #7  
Old 03-01-2011, 04:24 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 14,649
Re: Reporting in....

My story is a bit different. I came up among Trinitarians. Jesus People, Charismatics, and Pentecostals. That was the first 5-6 years of my walk. I enjoyed it richly. Many great experiences with Jesus. Good friends who lived holy and loved Jesus. In a way everything was fine.

Now and then I would run into an "Apostolic" as they were called. I was a bit put off by them. I never liked suits and ties or the "shave only" doctrine. Now I was around some very strict Trins with some similar holiness type standards but the Apostolics also brought a different doctrine.

I was very busy in the street ministry and fellowship so I never had time to pay much attention to them. One night while out witnessing in the night club are of Dayton Ohio we encountered a few Apostolics who were also witnessing.

One of them began preaching and I was greatly moved. He preached on repentance and then went to Acts 2:38 and Acts 4:12. It struck me. He was right. Why didnt our group preach Acts 2:38?

The most powerful proof he offered was that this was the first sermon ever preached in the New Testament Church! I had on and off felt that baptism was more important than we were making it. Also the Holy Ghost. Peters sermon brought them all together as one. From that time on I had a desire to be rebaptized that my baptism would match that in the New Testament.

A year or so later I was rebaptized in a Charismatic Church into the name of Jesus. The Pastor there had a very marvelous revelation of the Oneness of God which I gladly received.

I was so impressed with the vast array of scriptural proof of the Oneness doctrine I began visiting "Apostolic" Churches.

Boy was I disappointed. As awesome as the revelation of Oneness and Acts 2:38 salvation was I saw the level of spirituality was not much different than any other group. Then I had to deal with the "standards" thing.

I found a Church that said the standards were not for salvation but rather "church standards". I was made an Elder there. Soon afterwards however it became clear the standards were the main thing. I tuffed it out for a while but could not bring myself to teach these standards.

However I had truly studied out the Oneness and new birth message and saw that it was much more clear and accurate than what the Protestant/Evangelicals were teaching. No way could I go back there.

Some of the Trinitarian groups I had been around DID INDEED seem to teach better on intimacy with Jesus. Yet when it came to teaching who he was they were missing it Biblically.

So while I can relate some to Aquilas testimony I do not think the Evangelicals are so much more enlightened than Oneness. The longer one is around them the harder it is to hear what they teach.

I cannot compromise the doctrine of Oneness. I cannot go back to believing and teaching that repentance alone brings the new birth. It is obviously not true.

So that leaves me kind of outside of either camp. I look forward to the day when Oneness Churches will come to more Biblical view of standards. Like keeping the commands of Jesus rather than the traditions of men.

I also look forward to the day my Trinitarian friends and acquantances will turn their back on the errors of Protestant/Evangelicalism.

Aquila, somewhere along the line I got the idea you also are from around the Dayton Ohio area. If so what is this Church you are describing with the 2000 members you are so impressed by?
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  #8  
Old 03-01-2011, 06:12 PM
aegsm76 aegsm76 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,121
Re: Reporting in....

MTD has some good points/issues.
With me it starts with doctrine.
If your doctrine is not sound, then I do not want to attend your church.
With that said, I have been around those who had sound doctrine, but whose spirit was not "in tune" with the word of God.
I have been blessed in my travels that I have always managed to find a church with sound doctrine, a right spirit and a hunger for God.
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  #9  
Old 03-01-2011, 08:53 PM
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Austin Austin is offline
Austin


 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: blank
Posts: 867
Re: Reporting in....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Reporting In…

I don’t know if anyone knows my story or not so I’ll offer some details. I left the UPCI church I had been attending and started attending a mainstream non-denominational church. THEY ARE DEEP. The pastor of this church is preaching through the entire Gospel of John right now. He began the first Sunday of January and it’s now March; last Sunday we finally got into the second chapter of John. He estimates it will take us two years to adequately cover the Gospel of John. I was absolutely astounded by what he was able to bring out of the first chapter of John. Two months of in-depth study.

The house church network associated with the church is covering the entire book of Hebrews. It’s a little more general but we’ll be in it a few months.

What I’ve realized in this church is that the focus is on humility and death to “self”, embracing Grace, and living in total surrender to Christ. This leads us down the road of deepening our prayer life and seeking to be Christlike. I’ve also spent some time examining a few Christian forums and talking with mainstream believers about various spiritual issues. Their focus is always prayer and intimacy with Jesus. They don’t dress like Apostolics traditionally dress. They don’t have the “chicken dance”. In the main sanctuary there are nearly 2,000 people seated while the pastor unfolds the Scriptures… and you can almost hear a pin drop. They are SERIOUS about the Bible and worship. Not to the point of hype and emotionalism… but serious about communing with the Spirit and understanding God’s Word.

When I come to an Apostolic forum I’m a little disturbed. I’m read constant disputes about “standards”. I’m hearing variant teachings on ESSENTIALS clashing. The disharmony is something I never really noticed until now. It’s almost deafening. The debate about hair is almost stomach churching. I actually felt dizzy. The instability and debate seems rampant. And this isn’t debate on Calvinism vs. Arminianism, this is debate on essentials of the Apostolic faith and standards vs. standards vs. standards. Very little is focused on allowing Jesus to live through you and becoming one with Him as intimately as what I’m learning in this new church. The notion of “Grace” often appears non-existent. Where did “Grace” go?

It almost seems like each of us has our own religion.

Why so much disharmony among those claiming to be filled with the Holy Ghost? It greatly troubles me. As I learn more about grace and intimate fellowship with Christ and other believers, I’m feeling that I need to bring my understanding back to my Apostolic friends and associates. I’ve posted a few things regarding grace and practicing the presence of Christ… yet they don’t seem to get as much attention as uncut hair or questions about churches changing standards. Having stepped outside and coming back in…. I’m seeing some very upsetting things. Pleas share your thoughts.

Grace is only greasy if you can easily slip through the Father’s hands.
Excellent post of your concerns, I feel the same. I have only been here for a few weeks and see the same thing.. Don't be dismayed this sort of thing has been going on between Christians for many years. Only now does it appear more because we have technological resources to link us together under one exposure. Myself Im getting about all I want of the forum and might just look for something else that might be more edifying.
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