Baptism: Essential or Not

[deacon blues]

Had an interesting conversation with a couple Sunday afternoon about salvation. They were adament that water baptism is essential for salvation as well as being filled with the Holy Ghost with initial evidence of speaking in other tongues. They were emphatic about it, yet in the conversation they said a couple of things that didn't match their rhetoric.

First, I gave them the hypothetical situation where a man repents on a Sunday morning but wants to get baptized on Sunday night so family and friends can come to witness the event and celebrate it. What happens if the man dies that afternoon?
I also shared the story of a man who is dying and repents on his deathbed. Will that man go to heaven?

Their response was, "We aren't the judge. I won't put those people I hell. That's God's decision." Well, if baptism is essential for salvation, there can't be exceptions. It is either absolutley essential or not, period.

Then in the conversation they confessed that although their 13 year old son had repented and had received the HG, he has yet to be baptized. They said they were careful not to pressure him and have told him when he was ready to let them know. Really? Do you really believe that baptism is absolutely necessary? Wouldn't you be more forceful with your own child knowing that he isn't ready for heaven?

I think these people reflect a lot of folks who say they believe these things are essential for salvation, because that is what they've always been told, that their hero-pastor, Brother So-and-So preached it this way, that granny walked in this way. Yet they are willing to admit that there are scenarios where God won't require some people the "3 Steps" on a case by case basis. I used to say these same things to explain the anomalies that would arise from time to time to my Apostolic paradigm.

I preach and practice water baptism in Jesus Name. I preach the baptism of the HG. I believe in speaking in tongues and I do speak in tongues (more than you all---ha, just kidding). I don't speak in tongues every day. I don't even really keep track of when I do or how often. My wife and two of my kids have repented, been baptized in JN and have received the baptism of the HG. My youngest son has yet to be baptized in the HG. I believe he is going to heaven right now though. We are saved by grace, through faith, not of works.

There are 18 conversions recorded in Acts. There are 4 that include the Acts 2:38 pattern. ALL of them, however, include repentance/faith/believing. In fact, faith is the one constant from Genesis to Revelation.

One thing the couple said that was telling to me when I talked about our vision to reach the lost, to rejoice in the altar service at their repentance. I said, "After all the three of us are going to heaven. We have got to be focused on those who aren't." They chuckled and said, "Well, we're trying to get there. We hope we go there." Its revealing of the legalist mindset. They aren't legalists when it comes to standards, but they are when it comes to salvation. They've completed what is essential for salvation in their minds, yet they aren't sure they are saved. It was like looking at myself 20 years ago.

And admittedly I find myself fighting that urge from time to time to evaluate myself on my performance. How well am I doing? Am I praying enough? Am I reading my Bible consistently? Am I staying clean and unspotted by sin and the world? Am I being good? But the Lord doesn't evaluate me on my performance. He evaluates me through the cross. I am evaluated as a father evaluates his child. He loves me based not on performance but based on our relationship. I am saved because of His grace, and I live with peace, not "hoping" I can make it. I know I'm going to make it.

Do I fall? Do I fail? Do I sin? Absolutely. Am I smitten when I do? Am I broken-hearted when I disappoint my Father? Yes. Am I repentant and remorseful? Yes. But I'm not "trying" to get to heaven. I am trying to be obedient to my Father and yield to His will every day, with every choice.

[aegsm76]

Good post.

[DAII]

Well, Pastor ... welcome to the TRUTH.

Also be prepared to be slammed for it.

[Stephanas]

Baptism is an essential act of obedience for every saved person.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Had an interesting conversation with a couple Sunday afternoon about salvation. They were adament that water baptism is essential for salvation as well as being filled with the Holy Ghost with initial evidence of speaking in other tongues. They were emphatic about it, yet in the conversation they said a couple of things that didn't match their rhetoric.

First, I gave them the hypothetical situation where a man repents on a Sunday morning but wants to get baptized on Sunday night so family and friends can come to witness the event and celebrate it. What happens if the man dies that afternoon?
I also shared the story of a man who is dying and repents on his deathbed. Will that man go to heaven?

Their response was, "We aren't the judge. I won't put those people I hell. That's God's decision." Well, if baptism is essential for salvation, there can't be exceptions. It is either absolutley essential or not, period.

Then in the conversation they confessed that although their 13 year old son had repented and had received the HG, he has yet to be baptized. They said they were careful not to pressure him and have told him when he was ready to let them know. Really? Do you really believe that baptism is absolutely necessary? Wouldn't you be more forceful with your own child knowing that he isn't ready for heaven?

I think these people reflect a lot of folks who say they believe these things are essential for salvation, because that is what they've always been told, that their hero-pastor, Brother So-and-So preached it this way, that granny walked in this way. Yet they are willing to admit that there are scenarios where God won't require some people the "3 Steps" on a case by case basis. I used to say these same things to explain the anomalies that would arise from time to time to my Apostolic paradigm.

I preach and practice water baptism in Jesus Name. I preach the baptism of the HG. I believe in speaking in tongues and I do speak in tongues (more than you all---ha, just kidding). I don't speak in tongues every day. I don't even really keep track of when I do or how often. My wife and two of my kids have repented, been baptized in JN and have received the baptism of the HG. My youngest son has yet to be baptized in the HG. I believe he is going to heaven right now though. We are saved by grace, through faith, not of works.

There are 18 conversions recorded in Acts. There are 4 that include the Acts 2:38 pattern. ALL of them, however, include repentance/faith/believing. In fact, faith is the one constant from Genesis to Revelation.

One thing the couple said that was telling to me when I talked about our vision to reach the lost, to rejoice in the altar service at their repentance. I said, "After all the three of us are going to heaven. We have got to be focused on those who aren't." They chuckled and said, "Well, we're trying to get there. We hope we go there." Its revealing of the legalist mindset. They aren't legalists when it comes to standards, but they are when it comes to salvation. They've completed what is essential for salvation in their minds, yet they aren't sure they are saved. It was like looking at myself 20 years ago.

And admittedly I find myself fighting that urge from time to time to evaluate myself on my performance. How well am I doing? Am I praying enough? Am I reading my Bible consistently? Am I staying clean and unspotted by sin and the world? Am I being good? But the Lord doesn't evaluate me on my performance. He evaluates me through the cross. I am evaluated as a father evaluates his child. He loves me based not on performance but based on our relationship. I am saved because of His grace, and I live with peace, not "hoping" I can make it. I know I'm going to make it.

Do I fall? Do I fail? Do I sin? Absolutely. Am I smitten when I do? Am I broken-hearted when I disappoint my Father? Yes. Am I repentant and remorseful? Yes. But I'm not "trying" to get to heaven. I am trying to be obedient to my Father and yield to His will every day, with every choice.

Excellent post. Very thought provoking. When one is raised in a performance based religion the psychological conditioning is usually so strong it is very hard to think differently. I still struggle with this.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Had an interesting conversation with a couple Sunday afternoon about salvation. They were adament that water baptism is essential for salvation as well as being filled with the Holy Ghost with initial evidence of speaking in other tongues. They were emphatic about it, yet in the conversation they said a couple of things that didn't match their rhetoric.

First, I gave them the hypothetical situation where a man repents on a Sunday morning but wants to get baptized on Sunday night so family and friends can come to witness the event and celebrate it. What happens if the man dies that afternoon?
I also shared the story of a man who is dying and repents on his deathbed. Will that man go to heaven?

Their response was, "We aren't the judge. I won't put those people I hell. That's God's decision." Well, if baptism is essential for salvation, there can't be exceptions. It is either absolutley essential or not, period.

Then in the conversation they confessed that although their 13 year old son had repented and had received the HG, he has yet to be baptized. They said they were careful not to pressure him and have told him when he was ready to let them know. Really? Do you really believe that baptism is absolutely necessary? Wouldn't you be more forceful with your own child knowing that he isn't ready for heaven?

I think these people reflect a lot of folks who say they believe these things are essential for salvation, because that is what they've always been told, that their hero-pastor, Brother So-and-So preached it this way, that granny walked in this way. Yet they are willing to admit that there are scenarios where God won't require some people the "3 Steps" on a case by case basis. I used to say these same things to explain the anomalies that would arise from time to time to my Apostolic paradigm.

I preach and practice water baptism in Jesus Name. I preach the baptism of the HG. I believe in speaking in tongues and I do speak in tongues (more than you all---ha, just kidding). I don't speak in tongues every day. I don't even really keep track of when I do or how often. My wife and two of my kids have repented, been baptized in JN and have received the baptism of the HG. My youngest son has yet to be baptized in the HG. I believe he is going to heaven right now though. We are saved by grace, through faith, not of works.

There are 18 conversions recorded in Acts. There are 4 that include the Acts 2:38 pattern. ALL of them, however, include repentance/faith/believing. In fact, faith is the one constant from Genesis to Revelation.

One thing the couple said that was telling to me when I talked about our vision to reach the lost, to rejoice in the altar service at their repentance. I said, "After all the three of us are going to heaven. We have got to be focused on those who aren't." They chuckled and said, "Well, we're trying to get there. We hope we go there." Its revealing of the legalist mindset. They aren't legalists when it comes to standards, but they are when it comes to salvation. They've completed what is essential for salvation in their minds, yet they aren't sure they are saved. It was like looking at myself 20 years ago.

And admittedly I find myself fighting that urge from time to time to evaluate myself on my performance. How well am I doing? Am I praying enough? Am I reading my Bible consistently? Am I staying clean and unspotted by sin and the world? Am I being good? But the Lord doesn't evaluate me on my performance. He evaluates me through the cross. I am evaluated as a father evaluates his child. He loves me based not on performance but based on our relationship. I am saved because of His grace, and I live with peace, not "hoping" I can make it. I know I'm going to make it.

Do I fall? Do I fail? Do I sin? Absolutely. Am I smitten when I do? Am I broken-hearted when I disappoint my Father? Yes. Am I repentant and remorseful? Yes. But I'm not "trying" to get to heaven. I am trying to be obedient to my Father and yield to His will every day, with every choice.

Great Post.

[rgcraig]

Good to hear from you - - - and loved the post.

It sounds ALL too familiar.

[aegsm76]

Hmmmm. Trying to figure out why I am still in this "performance based religion" and I think it is a good post...

[KeptByTheWord]

Great post, you've summed up so much in one post!

Originally Posted by CC1

Excellent post. Very thought provoking. When one is raised in a performance based religion the psychological conditioning is usually so strong it is very hard to think differently. I still struggle with this.

My stance exactly!

[The Lemon]

Wow! This post made me do some serious self evaluation. I can remember many times repeating the same rhetoric when someone would pose ceretain scenarios to me. That is very ironic, seeing as how so many of us have reacted the same way at one time, although we most likely never even talked to or knew one another!

There are so many versus os scripture that I have heard quoted that link literal performance with our salvation...I have heard it preached about the talents, and how if you have a gift to use for God and don't you are going to Hell, and how we are commanded to win souls and if we don't win souls as ministers, then we are putting our souls at risk of Hell.

I remember some years ago looking at my wife and saying something like: "We were told in the begining that we needed to repent, be baptized, and recieve the Holy Ghost. Now a few years later the list keeps getting bigger..I wonder if we will ever do enough to be saved?"

I wonder how many have felt this same way? When you think of it, when you were a child, you tried so hard to make your parents proud. You made mistakes, and even willfully did some things you knew you were not supposed to do. Through it all your folks loved you. Sure you got punished every now and again, maybe even got the belt (I did!) But your parents never stopped loving you based on your ability to perform perfectly.

If our earthly parents love us that much, how much more does the one who created us love us? I mean really, how many Christians that really love God and communicate with Him would He just toss to the side because they cut their hair, wore pants, or went swimming at the beach? Better yet, when they call on their Dad, in need and broken, will He toss them out because they missed a step along the way?