Onus of Miracles and Revival

Dedicated Mind · #1 12-28-2010, 02:47 PM

If God wanted to save the world, why wouldn't He manifest miracles in the apostolic movement? Is the onus of miracles on the believer or on God? If on God, then why doesn't He manifest? If on us. then what are we lacking?

Digging4Truth · #2 12-28-2010, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

If God wanted to save the world, why wouldn't He manifest miracles in the apostolic movement? Is the onus of miracles on the believer or on God? If on God, then why doesn't He manifest? If on us. then what are we lacking?

An excellent question.

One for which I have insufficient knowledge or insight to answer with certainty. But one I ponder often.

Socialite · #3 12-28-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

If God wanted to save the world, why wouldn't He manifest miracles in the apostolic movement? Is the onus of miracles on the believer or on God? If on God, then why doesn't He manifest? If on us. then what are we lacking?

But he did manifest GREAT miracles in the catalyst of what was a very Apostolic movement.

There are pockets within Pentecostalism, and almost the entirety of Charismatics today that would wrongly answer your second question (see Health & Wealth Gospel and it all it's baby doctrines it has spread).

Regarding miracles present. Everytime a preacher asks "who has been healed before" in a service, it seems about 80% of the congregations raise there hand. I mean, headaches, back pain, foot shortening, you name it!

Charnock · #4 12-28-2010, 04:45 PM

Very good question.

mizpeh · #5 12-28-2010, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

If God wanted to save the world, why wouldn't He manifest miracles in the apostolic movement? Is the onus of miracles on the believer or on God? If on God, then why doesn't He manifest? If on us. then what are we lacking?

God does want to save the world, but Paul came to the conclusion that only "some" would be saved. 1 Cor 9:22

The lack has to be with us since God never changes.

I think the lack in us is the whole-hearted, completely devoted, prayerful, passionate faith that the early church had. For them to live is Christ and to die is gain.

Socialite · #6 12-28-2010, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

God does want to save the world, but Paul came to the conclusion that only "some" would be saved. 1 Cor 9:22

The lack has to be with us since God never changes.

I think the lack in us is the whole-hearted, completely devoted, prayerful, passionate faith that the early church had. For them to live is Christ and to die is gain.

That's an unfortunate (and I think unnecessary) conclusion, Mizpeh.

The scripture you cited -- this is evidence that Jesus isn't interested in saving the world? Or is this evidence that Paul, himself, did everything he could to disciple and lead some of that whole to Jesus himself?

The lack of supernatural giftings could be on our part, but as most Pentecostals, we often discount the Sovereignty of God. The gifts were given to the Church. Not something to be earned with the proper discipline. That doesn't say we should read less, pray less, fast less, etc... But faulting those works as reasons for the gifts not be as present as they were in Luke's 1st Century accounts is faulty. And before we boldly point back to the last several hundred years, we should realize the enormity of frauds and charlatans the mar the Church. Indeed, many Pentecostals/Charismatics are in an overkill attempt to have gifts. I believe at an epic level today, and at an imbalanced level. The signs follow those that believe. Not those who do this harder, prayer better, etc... Those that believe. The signs are behind our belief and message of Jesus, not the center stage, which is what they've become often times. The supernatural has been a stage show called "Revival" while discipleship was abandoned.

The signs that follow believers in Mark -- this was not an exhaustive list. Not was this was not a comprehensive list.

Too much of the Spirit's giftings are going to the credit of us. And naturally, in reverse, we are faulting us when they aren't there.

pastorrick1959 · #7 12-28-2010, 05:31 PM

it seems your post is more about not beliveing that miracles happen today ,,, i see them all the time.. what is lacking in why they dont happen for some . is simply a lack of prayer and fasting and faith in god .

god can do what he wants to do ,when he wants to do it , but ,, he wants us to seek him,/

not many christians in todays relaxed christians attitude ,will go away for a few days at a time to fast and pray ,,much less for weeks.. i realise that alot cant ,because of work ,, but i knew a guy who fasted 40 days while working ina carpet mill.

my answer -is a statement i make all the time .. if you want god to move for you..MOVE GOD.. PRAYERS MOVE HIM,, HUMBLING YOURSELF IN FASTING MOVES GOD ,,FAITH MOVES GOD.. and in doing those things it will increase your faith.

i wont get into if god wants to save the world .. the real thing there is ,, he wants us to save all we can , so thats our job.. god bless !

Godsdrummer · #8 12-30-2010, 08:29 AM

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

I think it is quit simple search your own heart, Jesus says these signs shall follow them that believe. If these signs are not present in your life check your beleif system. What do you believe in the simplicity of the work of the cross or in your own works.

God will not perform, just because you think he should. He meets the needs of his sheep.

Cindy · #9 12-30-2010, 08:55 AM

Are we forgetting Jesus performed miracles so that people would believe He came from the Father? That is why the signs should follow those who believe. Not for our sake, but so that others may know that He is God, and believe.

Socialite · #10 12-30-2010, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

I think it is quit simple search your own heart, Jesus says these signs shall follow them that believe. If these signs are not present in your life check your beleif system. What do you believe in the simplicity of the work of the cross or in your own works.

God will not perform, just because you think he should. He meets the needs of his sheep.

And I believe that's a dangerous teaching, Godsdrummer.