Oh No! Not Another Godhead Discusssion

Sam · #1 12-22-2010, 03:30 PM

I'm not trying to start a debate or to alienate anyone, but I just had to post this.

I don't really like either label of "trinity" or "oneness" and I some times use the words "Triune" and "triunity" to describe God. Because of this, some call me "trinity" and sorta use it like an epithet or pejorative or naughty word.

I received the regular newsletter from the Jack Van Impe ministry today and in it he discussed the incarnation. I just want to post some of the article here. If this describes trinity doctrine, I have some problems with it:

Why did God come through the channel of a virgin's womb? Why was it necessary for God, in spirit form, to take upon himself a body? Philippians 2:5-8 explicitly explains this great theological truth. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

The phrase, He humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross is the focal point of this discussion. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit held a meeting in eternity past and planned the entire program of redemption. All three were, at that time, in spirit form. God the Father was and still is a spirit (see John 4:24). The Holy Spirit was and still is a spirit (see John 16:13). Christ was a spirit because He was (past tense) in the form of God, which we have already proven to be a spirit form (see Philippians 2:6).

However, at this meeting of the Trinity in ages past, it was agreed that one of the three would eventually become a human with a covering of flesh, and Christ was the elected member to fulfill salvation's plan. This can all be proven from the Holy Scriptures. First Peter 1:20: Who verily...was manifest in these last times for you. Messiah means "sent one." If He is the sent One, He did not originate at Bethlehem's manger. Instead, Galatians 4:4,5 pictures the facts as they occurred. But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law.

Does this simplistic doctrinal truth penetrate your reasoning processes? Hear it again. God sent forth his Son, made of a woman. There it is-Christ's deity and humanity. His eternity and birth. God sent the Son who was in His presence, meaning that Christ existed as God before coming to earth. However, He was made of a woman when He was sent. This is, of course, the virgin birth which took place in the manger centuries ago when God became man.

When the Trinity outlined the plan, all the events of future history were foreknown. Remember, God knows everything. The plan progressed according to the omniscience of the Godhead....

TGBTG · #2 12-22-2010, 03:39 PM

Sam, what do you have a problem with in this article?

Sam · #3 12-22-2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Sam, what do you have a problem with in this article?

the three separate spirit beings having a conference in eternity past and deciding which one of them would become flesh

TGBTG · #4 12-22-2010, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

the three separate spirit beings having a conference in eternity past and deciding which one of them would become flesh

Bro, that is classic trinity for ya!

I believe Jason Badejo sometime ago posted an article by John MacArthur which basically espoused the same idea "the council of the trinity planned redemption..."

I'd have to find that article again...

TGBTG · #5 12-22-2010, 03:55 PM

Here it is...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I was listening to a John MacArthur audio earlier today and he made a statement to the effect that:

"The council of the Trinity decided who would be redeemed before the creation of the world."

I like alot of MacArthur's stuff, though there are some areas of disagreement. And I personally don't think that trinitarians are going to hell simply because their trinitarians, anymore than oneness are going to hell because their oneness.

Those things said, when I often hear trinitarians adamently deny they worship "3 gods" and sling mud on oneness people by saying we are sladering them, offering strawman arguments, and the such like. They normally ATTEMPT to choose their words carefully so as not to use the words "seperate" and "beings" and the such like when debating/discussing with a oneness person, BUT when the arena is not a godhead debate they make statements such as this, which to my mind are completely irrational and foolish...IF you want to claim to be strictly monotheistic.

How can a trinitarina TRULY say the believe "Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God is one LORD" and at the same refer to the "one God" as a COUNCIL who decided TOGETHER who would be the elect (saved) before the creation?

PS-how does that work, before creation, mankind has not been created yet, does the "holy trinity" draw straws, a names out of hat, what? On what basis is one choosen to inherit eternal life, and the other eternal damnation?

Here's what I think of that doctrine

Sam · #6 12-22-2010, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Bro, that is classic trinity for ya!

I believe Jason Badejo sometime ago posted an article by John MacArthur which basically espoused the same idea "the council of the trinity planned redemption..."

I'd have to find that article again...

I posted a quote from John MacArthur's book "I Believe in Jesus" a while back. The Book is titled "I Believe In Jesus" and subtitled "Leading Your Child to Christ." It is copyrighted 1999. The pages are not numbered but on what would be page 1 it says:

"The Bible says that in the beginning there was only God. He has always been. God has no beginning and no ending. There were no sun, no stars, no planets, no Earth -- and no people. There was just God. But He was not alone, because God is really three persons --God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All three together are God."

mfblume · #7 12-22-2010, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

I'm not trying to start a debate or to alienate anyone, but I just had to post this.

I don't really like either label of "trinity" or "oneness" and I some times use the words "Triune" and "triunity" to describe God. Because of this, some call me "trinity" and sorta use it like an epithet or pejorative or naughty word.

There are uneducated folks who think "triune" is too close to "trinity" to mean anything different. lol. It simply means three in one, whether it's three manifestations in one or three persons.

In actuality, TRINITY technically does not have to mean three persons either. Just three whatevers in one something.

mfblume · #8 12-22-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

However, at this meeting of the Trinity in ages past, it was agreed that one of the three would eventually become a human with a covering of flesh, and Christ was the elected member to fulfill salvation's plan.

This is the kicker of how Oneness differs from Trinity, despite the thoughts of some that it is only semantics. Trinity teaches a communion between three persons for all eternity past, as well as future, and that each of the three loved each other and were aware of each other and communicated with each other. Oneness teaches God was all alone for eternity past.