When Does Justification Take Place?

Charnock · #1 12-21-2010, 10:20 PM

When do Apostolics believe justification takes place (to justify is to declare righteous, to make one right with God)?

Do Apostolics teach justification by faith?

Romans 3:21-26 NIV

21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

DAII · #2 12-21-2010, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charnock

When do Apostolics believe justification takes place (to justify is to declare righteous, to make one right with God)?

Do Apostolics teach justification by faith?

Romans 3:21-26 NIV

21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

The Segravian view is at the point of faith/repentance...

The Bernardian view is after all 3 steps are completed ...

The Epleyian view is after repentance and a proper baptism ... in his view one can be justified but not rapture ready until you are sealed with glossalia.
To his credit he does see that justification and remission go hand in hand.

I treated this subject about 3 years ago here: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...read.php?t=706

There is no articulated view on justification in the UPCI Articles of Faith.

PCIers hold the traditional evangelical view ....

Sam · #3 12-21-2010, 10:34 PM

You'll get different opinions here.

It is my opinion that a person is justified at the moment he/she believes in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I arrived at that conclusion after carefully reading the third and fourth chapters of the Book of Romans in several different translations.

I have a document titled "The Role of Faith in Justification" which was presented by Bro. Daniel Segraves at the Urshan Graduate School of Theology Symposium May 1-3, 2003 which I can send as an email attachment to anyone who wants it and gives me an email address.

I recommend a site called In Christ Alone http://inchristalone.org/ for some very informative information on this subject

DAII · #4 12-21-2010, 10:40 PM

Bernie Gillespie, former ABI teacher, has various articles dealing with the schizophrenic nature of the teaching of justification among Apostolica ... unequivocally stating this very thing led him to leave the movement:

http://inchristalone.org/RealJustPt1.html
http://www.inchristalone.org/Justifi...rn%20Again.pdf

http://inchristalone.org/WhatIsJust.html

DAII · #5 12-21-2010, 10:46 PM

Recently Jorge Medina ... of the Enseyite Camp and who runs a site called "Defenders of the Faith" shared with me his view that justification is "on going process" ...
he expressed disapproval of the Segravian view.

This is a Catholic view on justification.

DAII · #6 12-21-2010, 10:49 PM

I believe not having a more unified view, or general consensus, on basics like justification and when the blood is applied (atonement) is a serious black eye on the movement.

Sam · #7 12-21-2010, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII

I believe not having a more unified view, or general consensus, on basics like justification and when the blood is applied (atonement) is a serious black eye on the movement.

one of several things that can be a black eye to the movement

DAII · #8 12-21-2010, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

one of several things that can be a black eye to the movement

I believe there will be a re-write of the articles of faith circa 2012 ... with DKB's Creative Planning committee leading the way ... I believe he will include some type of statement on justification.

houston · #9 12-21-2010, 10:59 PM

Think they'll finally push the PCI out?

DAII · #10 12-21-2010, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houston

Think they'll finally push the PCI out?

The only way to do this is to make an explicit statement about the New Birth ... which also is absent in the Articles of Faith.

I believe this may happen.

Ironically it will sound a lot like the WeDeclare platitudes, imo.

With TV .... becoming a non-issue. The ban of pants on a woman ... finally fossilized in the code as well.