I've been a victim of this, having things said against me that were not true, and felt powerless. And I'm not talking about "harmless gossip" amongst saints (as if any gossip is harmless), I'm talking serious allegations amongst some ministry (one couple involved were new home missions pastors and suddenly felt empowered and in the elite to be able to now gossip about the lowly saints. I say this because this is in a nutshell what was later relayed to me by the woman who first divulged the misinformation). Then eventually the serious misinformation and allegations got to someone else and caused serious problems. The thing of it was it was all twisted into a perverse understanding of what had been said in a moment of trying to seek help about a personal situation. They heard apparently what they wanted to hear, not the truth, and then went on to tell the tale in a false manner, and I guess they felt they had every God given right to do so because they are ministry. It is humliating and demoralizing to say the least.
One pastor's wife in particular has a quite toxic personality in that she gossips ALOT about their church people's personal problems or very private situations to other saints and anyone else who will listen, and her husband isn't far behind and pretty much almost does the same but he differs in that is only with certain select "elect" members, and he does nothing to stop her toxic harmful gossiping. Those who know what I'm talking about and been through it know what I mean. It kind of bothers me the freedom these pastors and ministers have to just call up about a person who attends or attended their church and basically gossip and outright slander (unwittingly or not) against people, and then create a false image about the poor person who is victim to all this, because the stuff spreads and causes a false report. There are privacy laws with medical records because people don't want their very private intimate information being told and shared
(at least it's accurate). As far as I am concerned there should be privacy laws concerning the church and it's people (half the stuff that's spread around isn't even accurate--as in the grapevine game most of us have played). There just doesn't seem to be a lot of recourse against this kind of thing currently. I would never want to come against a man of God, but at one point can or should that be stopped legally?
Live your life with the knowledge of the truth within your heart, regarding who you are and where you are going. Know this that if people are talking about you or of you that makes you a relevant person. It is when folks stop talking (Positive or negative) about you that you need to worry!
Live your life with the knowledge of the truth within your heart, regarding who you are and where you are going. Know this that if people are talking about you or of you that makes you a relevant person. It is when folks stop talking (Positive or negative) about you that you need to worry!
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
There is legal recourse if the slander is bad enough and can be proven. But most of times the best thing to do is just leave the situation. If people slander each other in spite of what the Bible says, they definitely won't stop slandering others because of what the law says.
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What we make of the Bible will never be as great a thing as what the Bible will - if we let it - make of us.~Rich Mullins
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.~Galileo Galilei
From my experience, Pentecostal/Apostolic people and groups are much more likely to be swayed by this sort of slander and gossip - even while making loud noises from the pulpit against such things.
Visiting evangelists - especially the "ultra-con" variety - were always an excellent source of what was being said around the fellowship in the days before the widespread use of the Internet. Folks who were either in leadership positions or who were perceived as being "groomed" somehow for leadership were the most frequent targets.
I "debated" DKB back in the late eighties/early nineties in a particular forum. (It wasn't really a "debate" - but you know how people are). In any event, I had a reputation for having "debated" DKB for a time. For some reason this seemed to attract a certain amount of gossip my way as people "took me into their confidence" because having "debated" (argued?) with DKB I "would understand."
When word got around that I actually spoke up for the guy in these encounters I found myself excluded from those "confidences." Whatever.
I had a guy report to my pastor that he heard me "standing in the pulpit and cursing" ... "cursing." He even shared the choice words that he alleged I had said. Of course no one else heard that and all of my sermons/lessons/what-have-you were always recorded. Nevertheless, because my own pastor had fallen into sin and compromise he took this to heart, climbed into the same pulpit and denounced me to a very puzzled congregation.
He eventually lost that congregation (the people walked out on him) and he was later banished by the remnant from the church that he had founded. I took no pleasure in watching that happen, it was painful. But, what comes around goes around, as they say.
From my experience, Pentecostal/Apostolic people and groups are much more likely to be swayed by this sort of slander and gossip - even while making loud noises from the pulpit against such things.
Visiting evangelists - especially the "ultra-con" variety - were always an excellent source of what was being said around the fellowship in the days before the widespread use of the Internet. Folks who were either in leadership positions or who were perceived as being "groomed" somehow for leadership were the most frequent targets.
I "debated" DKB back in the late eighties/early nineties in a particular forum. (It wasn't really a "debate" - but you know how people are). In any event, I had a reputation for having "debated" DKB for a time. For some reason this seemed to attract a certain amount of gossip my way as people "took me into their confidence" because having "debated" (argued?) with DKB I "would understand."
When word got around that I actually spoke up for the guy in these encounters I found myself excluded from those "confidences." Whatever.
I had a guy report to my pastor that he heard me "standing in the pulpit and cursing" ... "cursing." He even shared the choice words that he alleged I had said. Of course no one else heard that and all of my sermons/lessons/what-have-you were always recorded. Nevertheless, because my own pastor had fallen into sin and compromise he took this to heart, climbed into the same pulpit and denounced me to a very puzzled congregation.
He eventually lost that congregation (the people walked out on him) and he was later banished by the remnant from the church that he had founded. I took no pleasure in watching that happen, it was painful. But, what comes around goes around, as they say.
It's not really just Oneness/Apostolic. It's the world and it shows how close even the UCs are
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WHjvh8dqIA
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Maybe the thing that you were a part of was a man-ordained club that wanted to establish and maintain a certain fidelity to their belief systems and was not actually the Church that God has built for himself without the hands of man?
I think there are probably countless of these in existence today. The challenge set before us is to join Abraham by leaving the city whose senior founder is a man and instead, seek a city whose builder and maker is God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajjk
I've been a victim of this, having things said against me that were not true, and felt powerless. And I'm not talking about "harmless gossip" amongst saints (as if any gossip is harmless), I'm talking serious allegations amongst some ministry (one couple involved were new home missions pastors and suddenly felt empowered and in the elite to be able to now gossip about the lowly saints. I say this because this is in a nutshell what was later relayed to me by the woman who first divulged the misinformation). Then eventually the serious misinformation and allegations got to someone else and caused serious problems. The thing of it was it was all twisted into a perverse understanding of what had been said in a moment of trying to seek help about a personal situation. They heard apparently what they wanted to hear, not the truth, and then went on to tell the tale in a false manner, and I guess they felt they had every God given right to do so because they are ministry. It is humliating and demoralizing to say the least.
One pastor's wife in particular has a quite toxic personality in that she gossips ALOT about their church people's personal problems or very private situations to other saints and anyone else who will listen, and her husband isn't far behind and pretty much almost does the same but he differs in that is only with certain select "elect" members, and he does nothing to stop her toxic harmful gossiping. Those who know what I'm talking about and been through it know what I mean. It kind of bothers me the freedom these pastors and ministers have to just call up about a person who attends or attended their church and basically gossip and outright slander (unwittingly or not) against people, and then create a false image about the poor person who is victim to all this, because the stuff spreads and causes a false report. There are privacy laws with medical records because people don't want their very private intimate information being told and shared
(at least it's accurate). As far as I am concerned there should be privacy laws concerning the church and it's people (half the stuff that's spread around isn't even accurate--as in the grapevine game most of us have played). There just doesn't seem to be a lot of recourse against this kind of thing currently. I would never want to come against a man of God, but at one point can or should that be stopped legally?
__________________
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath [James 1:19]
I've been a victim of this, having things said against me that were not true, and felt powerless. And I'm not talking about "harmless gossip" amongst saints (as if any gossip is harmless), I'm talking serious allegations amongst some ministry (one couple involved were new home missions pastors and suddenly felt empowered and in the elite to be able to now gossip about the lowly saints. I say this because this is in a nutshell what was later relayed to me by the woman who first divulged the misinformation). Then eventually the serious misinformation and allegations got to someone else and caused serious problems. The thing of it was it was all twisted into a perverse understanding of what had been said in a moment of trying to seek help about a personal situation. They heard apparently what they wanted to hear, not the truth, and then went on to tell the tale in a false manner, and I guess they felt they had every God given right to do so because they are ministry. It is humliating and demoralizing to say the least.
One pastor's wife in particular has a quite toxic personality in that she gossips ALOT about their church people's personal problems or very private situations to other saints and anyone else who will listen, and her husband isn't far behind and pretty much almost does the same but he differs in that is only with certain select "elect" members, and he does nothing to stop her toxic harmful gossiping. Those who know what I'm talking about and been through it know what I mean. It kind of bothers me the freedom these pastors and ministers have to just call up about a person who attends or attended their church and basically gossip and outright slander (unwittingly or not) against people, and then create a false image about the poor person who is victim to all this, because the stuff spreads and causes a false report. There are privacy laws with medical records because people don't want their very private intimate information being told and shared
(at least it's accurate). As far as I am concerned there should be privacy laws concerning the church and it's people (half the stuff that's spread around isn't even accurate--as in the grapevine game most of us have played). There just doesn't seem to be a lot of recourse against this kind of thing currently. I would never want to come against a man of God, but at one point can or should that be stopped legally?
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Cajjk, You see the need for everyone to have the gospel. This is your chance to start making a change. We wrestle not against flesh and blood. Examine yourself first and repent, because sin usually breeds sin. Don't murder these people in your heart. Peace to you.
Luke 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
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