A question for 3 steppers

berkeley · #1 09-12-2010, 10:42 PM

Or a few questions linked together:

If baptism is to obtain the forgiveness of sins, why are (some) people sealed with the Holy Ghost before they are baptized in water? Did/does God give His Spirit to sinners?

Falla39 · #2 09-12-2010, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkley

Or a few questions linked together:

If baptism is to obtain the forgiveness of sins, why are (some) people sealed with the Holy Ghost before they are baptized in water? Did/does God give His Spirit to sinners?

Acts 10:44-48

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Also read the preceeding verses of chapter 10 for the message Peter was
speaking to them. Faith in what Peter was speaking caused them to receive
the Holy Ghost, for they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Peter still commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Falla39

Aquila · #3 09-13-2010, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkley

Or a few questions linked together:

If baptism is to obtain the forgiveness of sins, why are (some) people sealed with the Holy Ghost before they are baptized in water? Did/does God give His Spirit to sinners?

Salvation is a process that works throughout a person's life. My understanding is that we are "justified" by faith. Being made "just" by the blood of Jesus Christ we are ready to receive all that Christ died to purchase for us on Calvary. Therefore receiving the Holy Ghost and remission of sins may happen freely as one responds to the Word of God. So yes, God gives the Holy Ghost to sinners who are justified by faith.

berkeley · #4 09-13-2010, 10:05 AM

okay, the real question (need to think this stuff through before I start threads):

Does God give the Holy Ghost to people whose sins are not forgiven/remitted?

TGBTG · #5 09-13-2010, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkley

Or a few questions linked together:

If baptism is to obtain the forgiveness of sins, why are (some) people sealed with the Holy Ghost before they are baptized in water? Did/does God give His Spirit to sinners?

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

So somewhere along the line, that "sinner" must have obeyed God. When did the sinner obey God? 3 steppers could enlighten us more

rgcraig · #6 09-13-2010, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkley

okay, the real question (need to think this stuff through before I start threads):

Does God give the Holy Ghost to people whose sins are not forgiven/remitted?

Nope.

A.W. Bowman · #7 09-13-2010, 10:17 AM

I still like Joel 2:28-32, as referenced to in Acts 2:16-21 by Peter, and witnessed to by Paul in all of Romans 10, with emphases on verse 13 (in context). With the supporting scripture of Habakkuk 2:4 (Him self), Romans 1:17 (Paul), and Hebrews 10:38 (Unknown).

Where does this leave the famous question posed in Acts 2:37?

37 Now when they heard [this, the strong preaching of Peter], they were pricked in their heart [believed Peter's message], and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men[and] brethren, what shall we do [now]?

According to the Hebrew worldview, they were to become disciples (students, Talmidim) of the Rabbi from Nazareth, by taking upon themselves the doctrines (a Rabbi's yoke), which called for God's first requirement of salvation, repentance, which included a ritual cleansing and performing the act of rebirth (accepting the Rabbi as one's personal master in all things). Or, as a new convert (to Judaism or giving allegiance to a Rabbi, Yeshiva/school) he also receives a gift, or seal of acceptance from the Rabbi. And, yes, even as with the Jewish marriage ceremony, some gifts are given to the bride prior to the marriage.

Even so, most of the teaching and the significance of these events and their meanings (importance) in relationship with our Old Covenant heritage was lost soon after the western church was cut off from this religious foundation in the fourth century.

Bottom line: People today get 'saved' just like they did way back when. In times past, the faithful looked forward to the advent of the Anointed One, in times present, the faithful look back to the advent. Remember, when Jesus sent out the seventy, they already had their names written "in heaven" (Luke 10:20 & Revelation 3:5).

Even so, faith without works is dead, being of its self. (See James 2:26) Adding works to one's faith is further demonstrated in Acts 2:37: "... what shall we do [now]?"

Conclusion: Placing one's faith in Jesus, and trusting Him alone for one's salvation also requires obedience to to Him and His doctrines.Salvation is not a one, two, three step process, or even a dance, it is a life style.

berkeley · #8 09-13-2010, 10:20 AM

Renda: I have been pondering this very thing for 6 years. I have seen at least a hundred people (evangestically speaking) receive the Holy Ghost in our services to never return and get baptized. I sat in a service where the evangelist told the church that God gave the Holy Ghost on loan, knowing that the person would be baptized in water. I have heard a pastor say that the person that receives the Holy Ghost before water baptism was forgiven, but their sins not remitted.

rgcraig · #9 09-13-2010, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkley

Renda: I have been pondering this very thing for 6 years. I have seen at least a hundred people (evangestically speaking) receive the Holy Ghost in our services to never return and get baptized. I sat in a service where the evangelist told the church that God gave the Holy Ghost on loan, knowing that the person would be baptized in water. I have heard a pastor say that the person that receives the Holy Ghost before water baptism was forgiven, but their sins not remitted.

Oh, I believe someone can receive the Holy Ghost before they are baptised - that's not what you asked.

I do not believe anyone can receive the Holy Ghost without repenting of their sins. Now, sometime they are "given" the Holy Ghost by some over zealous altar workers.

Of course, I'm of the belief that ones sins are forgiven when they repent.

TGBTG · #10 09-13-2010, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkley

Renda: I have been pondering this very thing for 6 years. I have seen at least a hundred people (evangestically speaking) receive the Holy Ghost in our services to never return and get baptized. I sat in a service where the evangelist told the church that God gave the Holy Ghost on loan,knowing that the person would be baptized in water.

Holy Ghpst on loan?!! You have definitely been in some very interesting meetings.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. I believe the Holy Ghost is our guarantee of salvation. The Holy Ghost is God living in us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkley

I have heard a pastor say that the person that receives the Holy Ghost before water baptism was forgiven, but their sins not remitted.

Interesting...Where do this people even place the blood of Jesus Christ in their theology? Do they even know why Jesus had to shed his blood?