Apostolic Unity

[Sabby]

What prevents the apostolic church from experiencing the type of unity Jesus desires (Jn 17)?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Shingledecker

What prevents the apostolic church from experiencing the type of unity Jesus desires (Jn 17)?

By "apostolic church" I'm assuming you mean the religious movement which began in 1913 and evolved into the various oneness Pentecostal organizations and churches we have today.

The problem with 'apostolic church' unity is the same problem that caused the unity issues with the Methodists, Baptist and others. The bible is a book that has contradictions, inconsistencies and error and folks try to be in unity by following the flawed book instead of simply living a life based upon the simple view that God is love.

Folks want unity from a flawed rulebook where the rules are changing from epoch to epoch. Can't happen.

[Sister Alvear]

lots of things...politics in general....

[Sam]

If all apostolics were to merge into one big group,
how could they ever decide which one person would be the
Presiding Bishop/General Superintendent/Chairman/CEO/Pope/Supreme Potentate/Grand Wizard/etc.???

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by seekerman

By "apostolic church" I'm assuming you mean the religious movement which began in 1913 and evolved into the various oneness Pentecostal organizations and churches we have today.

The problem with 'apostolic church' unity is the same problem that caused the unity issues with the Methodists, Baptist and others. The bible is a book that has contradictions, inconsistencies and error and folks try to be in unity by following the flawed book instead of simply living a life based upon the simple view that God is love.

Folks want unity from a flawed rulebook where the rules are changing from epoch to epoch. Can't happen.

Seekerguy,
This question is directed to those that consider themselves apostolic.
You did not answer my question but instead injected your opinion about the Bible. Since by your post it appears you don't believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God then I believe you have disqualified yourself from this discussion.
Sorry you feel that way about the book. Is the Koran more reliable? What about Vishnu? What do you use (other than an emotional opinion) to PROVE that "your god is Jesus' god"? What other resource do you have (in writing) that directs you to a personal relationship and accountability to a Holy God? The Bible is the most reliable resource for information about God the Creator and Savior than anything else you may ever read.
My question again, to apostolics is: What do we DO to encourage Apostolic Unity among ministry and laity?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Sam

If all apostolics were to merge into one big group,
how could they ever decide which one person would be the
Presiding Bishop/General Superintendent/Chairman/CEO/Pope/Supreme Potentate/Grand Wizard/etc.???

We have a winner!

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Shingledecker

What prevents the apostolic church from experiencing the type of unity Jesus desires (Jn 17)?

The answer is simple. The Apostolic Church is what keeps the Apostolic Church from experiencing this type of unity. Since we are ran by men nothing is going to be perfect.

[Sam]

Why do we have various Apostolic Pentecostal organizations?
There are several reasons.

There have been divisions among OP's based on race.

There have been divisions among OP's based on who can be divorced and remarried and still be a minister.

There have been divisions among OP's on the baptismal formula such as "Lord Jesus" or "Lord Jesus Christ" or "Jesus Christ" or "Jesus" or "Yeshua"

There have been divisions among OP's based on "standards" recently the WWPF set up a separate organization because the UPC allowed TV. In 1992 some left and formed another organization because of the Affirmation Statement.

There have been divisions among OP's based on who got certain offices and who didn't. I'm not sure but I think a big factor in the formation of the AMF in the 1960's was when M.B. did not get to be Gen. Supt. in 1968. I may be misinformed on this.

Also, there have been churches which split and one group would stay with the organization and the other group would become part of another organization so that would mean the rift between the organizations would widen.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Shingledecker

Seekerguy,
This question is directed to those that consider themselves apostolic.

Ok.

You did not answer my question but instead injected your opinion about the Bible.

I disagree, I did answer. The bible is one of the major reasons there's conflict in the so-called 'apostolic' movement. Some 'apostolics' teach from the bible it's a sin for a woman to cut her hair, other 'apostolics' teach that it's ok using the same bible. Some 'apostolics' will say the bible teaches that TV is a sin, other 'apostolics' teach that TV isn't a sin.

There's Steve Winter 'apostolics', UPC 'apostolics' and other 'apostolics' all teaching conflicting teachings based on the same bible.

Since by your post it appears you don't believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God then I believe you have disqualified yourself from this discussion.

Why would that disqualify me?

Sorry you feel that way about the book. Is the Koran more reliable? What about Vishnu?

I don't know much about the Koran, but I doubt it would be more reliable. Likewise Vishnu.

What do you use (other than an emotional opinion) to PROVE that "your god is Jesus' god"?

Oh, I use the bible for that.

What other resource do you have (in writing) that directs you to a personal relationship and accountability to a Holy God?

There are many spiritual writings that directs one to a personal relationship and accountibility to a Holy God. I suspect you're going to want to know what others, so I'll save a step and give you one. The Gospel of Thomas.

Now we'll argue about why the bible contains the books that it does.

The Bible is the most reliable resource for information about God the Creator and Savior than anything else you may ever read.

You don't know everything that I've ever read.

My question again, to apostolics is: What do we DO to encourage Apostolic Unity among ministry and laity?

Are you speaking of Steve Winter 'apostolics', UPC 'apostolics' or one of the other 'apostolic' sects out there? What bible do they use to come to such conflicting beliefs?

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by seekerman

By "apostolic church" I'm assuming you mean the religious movement which began in 1913 and evolved into the various oneness Pentecostal organizations and churches we have today.

The problem with 'apostolic church' unity is the same problem that caused the unity issues with the Methodists, Baptist and others. The bible is a book that has contradictions, inconsistencies and error and folks try to be in unity by following the flawed book instead of simply living a life based upon the simple view that God is love.

Folks want unity from a flawed rulebook where the rules are changing from epoch to epoch. Can't happen.

The Bible only can have flaws when it is viewed with flawed eyes, which we all have.