Godhead Question

[Sherri]

Ok, I lean heavily toward Oneness, even though I hate using that title, because it's divisive. But tonight Eddie was using a scripture during his message that really is hard to understand from that viewpoint. When the Word talks about Jesus being the mediator between us and God, how does that work into a Oneness view? Seriously, I'm trying to wrap my brain around this.

I'm going to bed, so I will read your responses in the morning. G'night!

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Ok, I lean heavily toward Oneness, even though I hate using that title, because it's divisive. But tonight Eddie was using a scripture during his message that really is hard to understand from that viewpoint. When the Word talks about Jesus being the mediator between us and God, how does that work into a Oneness view? Seriously, I'm trying to wrap my brain around this.

I'm going to bed, so I will read your responses in the morning. G'night!

As always, Jesus and God should not be viewed as two beings here. Rather, in the general sense, Jesus, because of who he is (both God and man) can mediate our case.

Because he is one of us, a "kinsmen", he can effectively plead our case to God as he exists beyond the incarnation.

It helps to get some clarity of the terms.

I like to say the Son, Jesus Christ was God in and through the incarnation, while the Father is God beyond and outside the incarnation.

Therefore it makes sense to say the Son (who knew the struggles and limitations of humanity) could effectively plead and mediate our case to the Father (who is God apart from the incarnation, and offer Himself as a willing sacrifice for the sins of humanity.

[Jack Shephard]

It is like a victim advocate (in the legal system) of sorts. He (Jesus) was the go between for us. The difference was he was the son of God (flesh of) as ou advocate. It would be like the judge was also our advocate (our inside man). Since Jesus was the mediator/the lamb and the judge there is/was no way for us to lose. Hope this helps. Truth is since are humans trying to understand the God of all its hard to wrap our minds around much of what He did or does. IMO

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Ok, I lean heavily toward Oneness, even though I hate using that title, because it's divisive. But tonight Eddie was using a scripture during his message that really is hard to understand from that viewpoint. When the Word talks about Jesus being the mediator between us and God, how does that work into a Oneness view? Seriously, I'm trying to wrap my brain around this.

I'm going to bed, so I will read your responses in the morning. G'night!

Jesus Christ mediated between God and men on the cross. Verse 6 even explicitly explains how he mediated between God and men: he gave himself a ransom for all. In fact, one might could think of the cross as all the mediation mankind will ever need

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

I hope that helps.

[Michael The Disciple]

Also consider he is our mediator simply in knowing and seeing God.

Since the Bible says "no one has seen God at any time" I think Jesus was letting us know to find God all we need is HIM.

[44] Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
[45] And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. John 12:44-45

[5] Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
[7] If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[8] Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:5-9

Note that Jesus does not teach us to try to know the Father apart from knowing him like Phillip desired. Jesus draws his focus right back to himself.

In this sense his is our "go between". Knowing him is knowing the Father. Seeing him is seeing the Father.

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Jesus Christ mediated between God and men on the cross. Verse 6 even explicitly explains how he mediated between God and men: he gave himself a ransom for all. In fact, one might could think of the cross as all the mediation mankind will ever need

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

I hope that helps.

Wow, jfrog, this isn't what I was thinking, but it is so good, I think I'll change my thought!

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

As always, Jesus and God should not be viewed as two beings here. Rather, in the general sense, Jesus, because of who he is (both God and man) can mediate our case.

Because he is one of us, a "kinsmen", he can effectively plead our case to God as he exists beyond the incarnation.

It helps to get some clarity of the terms.

I like to say the Son, Jesus Christ was God in and through the incarnation, while the Father is God beyond and outside the incarnation.

Therefore it makes sense to say the Son (who knew the struggles and limitations of humanity) could effectively plead and mediate our case to the Father (who is God apart from the incarnation, and offer Himself as a willing sacrifice for the sins of humanity.

This is good, Hoovie, but it's still confusing. If it's confusing for me, I totally understand how it can be confusing for those who've never been taught "oneness". It still sounds like two beings.

I guess the part that makes me go "hmmmm" is that it sounds like they have two different thought patterns, which I don't believe they do. It sounds like Jesus is thinking one thing and trying to persuade the Father (God) to think like Him. I know that is convoluted, but that's how this scripture sounds.

I just don't think we'll ever understand the godhead, so maybe I should quit trying and just love the Lord and live for Him.

[Aquila]

I'm a simple man. In my mind I see the Father as the one and only Almighty God. I believe that this God took his Word (thought, plan, idea, expression) and made it flesh and blood. That plan of God was Jesus. Jesus was the Son of God, an authentic human being in every way. Distinct from the Father as to his full humanity. However, the Son (the man Jesus Christ) is united with the Father in an unexplainable and inseparable spiritual Oneness so that each nature is shared. Hence the Father, through Christ partakes of the human nature. And the Son, through the indwelling divinity of the Father, partakes in the divine nature. The very person of Christ Jesus is a reflection of the very person of the Father in human flesh. Thus in Christ Jesus, only one "person" is revealed; the Father.

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'm a simple man. In my mind I see the Father as the one and only Almighty God. I believe that this God took his Word (thought, plan, idea, expression) and made it flesh and blood. That plan of God was Jesus. Jesus was the Son of God, an authentic human being in every way. Distinct from the Father as to his full humanity. However, the Son (the man Jesus Christ) is united with the Father in an unexplainable and inseparable spiritual Oneness. The very person of Christ Jesus is a reflection of the very person of the Father in human flesh. Thus in Christ Jesus, only one "person" is revealed; the Father.

I totally agree, but that Scripture is still hard to think through. Maybe it's just me.....

[Aquila]

In the beginning was the "thought". The thought was with the thinker; and the thought was the thinker.