Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > The Newsroom > Political Talk
Facebook

Notices

Political Talk Political News


View Poll Results: Is the Constitution subject to interpretation?
Yes 9 69.23%
No 4 30.77%
Not sure 0 0%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-04-2010, 12:00 PM
Praxeas's Avatar
Praxeas Praxeas is offline
Go Dodgers!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,787
Is The Constitution Subject to Interpretation

Do you think it should be subject to interpretation?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-04-2010, 03:20 PM
Baron1710's Avatar
Baron1710 Baron1710 is offline
Cross-examine it!


 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orcutt, CA.
Posts: 6,736
Re: Is The Constitution Subject to Interpretation

Well we have to interpret it. The question is how do we interpret it.

Do we give the words the meaning that they had when the document was written?

Do we interpret it to narrowly or widely?

For instance look at the 4th search and seizure clause. That didn't apply to phone calls when written but it does now. To get that requires broader application of the document than it did at the time.
__________________
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-04-2010, 03:45 PM
Digging4Truth's Avatar
Digging4Truth Digging4Truth is offline
Still Figuring It Out.


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,858
Re: Is The Constitution Subject to Interpretation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710 View Post
Well we have to interpret it. The question is how do we interpret it.

Do we give the words the meaning that they had when the document was written?

Do we interpret it to narrowly or widely?

For instance look at the 4th search and seizure clause. That didn't apply to phone calls when written but it does now. To get that requires broader application of the document than it did at the time.
Agreed. Any document has to be interpreted. A good question, imo, is whether it is a "living" document. It is in the sense that technologies change ( as mentioned by Baron) but it is not in that the original intent and purpose are REinterpreted as time goes on and people's concepts change.

As a matter of fact... we have reason to sue the federal government for breach of contract on one portion alone.

That being... Article IV Section 4

Quote:
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
The federal government is bound it's creating document (The Constitution) to maintain a republican form of government for every state.

The federal government poorly maintains even a democratic form of government (which is woefully inept compared to the republican form of government we were given by our forefathers).

The federal government goes all around the world "Spreading democracy" when they aren't even supposed to be maintaining a democracy even here.

Like the Bible... if we were to return to the original document of the Constitution and compare what we are supposed to have to what we have now our intended form of government is indistinguishable in what we have now.

We have wandered far, far, far from the document to the point that it is time to once again that our forefathers came to several hundred years ago.

Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
We have reached this place again.

It is, once again, time to throw off a government who has forgotten the governed and form another one.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-04-2010, 05:01 PM
Jermyn Davidson's Avatar
Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In His Hands
Posts: 13,914
Re: Is The Constitution Subject to Interpretation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth View Post
It is, once again, time to throw off a government who has forgotten the governed and form another one.

The thing is, we can do this with what we have in place already.

All Americans should vote, but they don't. Far too many complain about the way things have been or are.

Get involved in the process, get your family, circle of friends, community even involved and use our form of government to fix our form of government.

It's a genius system, for those who are willing to work it.
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-04-2010, 05:17 PM
Sam's Avatar
Sam Sam is offline
Jesus' Name Pentecostal


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
Re: Is The Constitution Subject to Interpretation

There are things not specifically mentioned in the Constitution so we have to apply the principles in the Constitution as we understand it to those specific things or instances.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis

Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-04-2010, 05:19 PM
Bowas's Avatar
Bowas Bowas is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,318
Re: Is The Constitution Subject to Interpretation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
The thing is, we can do this with what we have in place already.

All Americans should vote, but they don't. Far too many complain about the way things have been or are.

Get involved in the process, get your family, circle of friends, community even involved and use our form of government to fix our form of government.

It's a genius system, for those who are willing to work it.
No. ALL American should not vote. The vote of the uninformed is far more damaging than non-participation and is in large part why we are in this mess. They vote on sound bites and emotion, not on practical reality.
Case in point, the "Hope and Change" slogan sounded good to the uninformed, but to the informed, it was well understood what was being said.
I do wish there was some litmus test to qualify to vote. An I.D. is not even required in some states. Gimme me a break!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-04-2010, 05:23 PM
Sam's Avatar
Sam Sam is offline
Jesus' Name Pentecostal


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
Re: Is The Constitution Subject to Interpretation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowas View Post
...
I do wish there was some litmus test to qualify to vote. An I.D. is not even required in some states. Gimme me a break!
In Ohio we have many more people registered to vote (and we have allowed instant voting at registration) than we have actual voters.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-04-2010, 05:47 PM
Jermyn Davidson's Avatar
Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In His Hands
Posts: 13,914
Re: Is The Constitution Subject to Interpretation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowas View Post
No. ALL American should not vote. The vote of the uninformed is far more damaging than non-participation and is in large part why we are in this mess. They vote on sound bites and emotion, not on practical reality.
Case in point, the "Hope and Change" slogan sounded good to the uninformed, but to the informed, it was well understood what was being said.
I do wish there was some litmus test to qualify to vote. An I.D. is not even required in some states. Gimme me a break!
If all Americans are equal, then all Americans should vote, if they are able to.

Even if some voted on emotion, others have voted on lies-- the lies of politicians of whom they thought they were well-informed about.


There are certain benefits that should be freely afforded to ALL AMERICANS as these benefits are what make America, America and the dream, pride and / or envy of so many around the world.
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-07-2010, 09:50 AM
Ferd's Avatar
Ferd Ferd is offline
I remain the Petulant Chevalier


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 17,524
Re: Is The Constitution Subject to Interpretation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
If all Americans are equal, then all Americans should vote, if they are able to.

Even if some voted on emotion, others have voted on lies-- the lies of politicians of whom they thought they were well-informed about.


There are certain benefits that should be freely afforded to ALL AMERICANS as these benefits are what make America, America and the dream, pride and / or envy of so many around the world.
Jermyn, it is a common and sad misconception that you bring up here. All Americans are not equal. The founding fathers never assumed that all men were equal.

They believed that all men are created equal. They fought and some died for that belief. But it was not a belief that all men are equal.

The false notion of equality has done more damage to America and to Americans than anything I can think of in the modern era. Equality cannot be achieved nor should it be strived for!

Equality demands that success be punished and lethargy be rewarded.


What America does believe in is that all men are created equal. It is the guiding principle that separated the American concept from all others in the 18th century. The founders believed strongly that every man should have access to achieve, to live free and become whatever he set out to be and could by the strength of his own hand hold on to.

Americans are equal in access and where we fail in that, we must strive to overcome the failure. ACCESS and OPPORTUNITY are the places where all Americans are created equal.

I agree with those who say that not every American should vote. One who is ignorant of what America is, has no business intruding on the discussion about where America will go. No one who is utterly dependant on their fellow citizens ought to be involved in determining what charity they should receive. There was a day when such a thought was anathema.

The founders were not right in keeping women from voting. Nor were they right in allowing slavery. Many of the founders did not agree with those constructs so they worked to place building blocks that would eventually allow for suffrage and the end of slavery. But they also required that a man be an owner of property to vote. They wanted stakeholders in the American Dream to be in charge of the nation.

Fully half the country cannot tell you who the Vice President of the United States is. More than 60% cannot tell you who the Speaker of the House is, nor what the job of the speaker is!
Almost 90% of Americans cannot name the Supreme Court Justices much less tell you how many there are!

The concept of separation of powers is lost on most Americans. The difference between the Senate and the House is not known by most of the people who send representatives to Washington! More than 30% of Americans cannot even tell you which coast Washington DC is on!

We have become mental morons as it relates to how and by whom we are governed.

Yet we espouse the doctrine that we are all equal. We are certainly not equal.

Give yourself this test
1. Name your House of Represenative
2. Name your two Senators (most people don’t know they have 2)
3. Name the Supreme Court Justices
4. Name the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court
5. Answer: What body has the greatest control on Federal Spending?

Very few Americans can correctly answer those questions. But we are equal? I do not think so.
__________________
If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
My Countdown Counting down to: Days left till the end of the opressive Texas Summer!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-07-2010, 09:53 AM
Ferd's Avatar
Ferd Ferd is offline
I remain the Petulant Chevalier


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 17,524
Re: Is The Constitution Subject to Interpretation

I agree with those who say the Constitution has to be interpreted. The devil as they say is in the details.

It is the “HOW” that matters. Should it be interpreted with a view of the original intent of the founders in mind? Or should it be interpreted with the view of modern social mores in mind?

I firmly hold with those who espose the doctrine of Original Intent
__________________
If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
My Countdown Counting down to: Days left till the end of the opressive Texas Summer!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
any thoughts on this subject Sister Alvear Fellowship Hall 0 01-27-2010 07:02 PM
Subject Matter Still As Inane As It Ever Was!! Glenda B Fellowship Hall 40 10-06-2009 01:43 PM
New preamble to the constitution Esther Political Talk 1 07-24-2009 09:36 AM
How does the Constitution read?! Barb Fellowship Hall 5 05-23-2008 05:30 PM
What Was Your Favorite Subject in School? (Poll) Nahum Fellowship Hall 62 01-03-2008 10:24 AM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by jfrog
- by Salome
- by Amanah

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.