Jesus' Second Coming?

[Jeffrey]

21 “A brother will betray his brother to death, a father will betray his own child, and children will rebel against their parents and cause them to be killed. 22 And all nations will hate you because you are my followers.[f] But everyone who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one town, flee to the next. I tell you the truth, the Son of Man[g] will return before you have reached all the towns of Israel.

The words of Jesus. Before you reach all the towns of Israel, Jesus would return. Interesting. Okay, you Eschatology Ninja's. Does this at least give an opportunity for a [I]parousia[I] in AD 70?

[shag]

no doubt, the gospel spead like wild fire..

(written around A.D. 57) Col. 1:5-6 ...the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit







Heb. 10:37
For in just a very little while, "He who is coming will come and will not delay.



and 20 centuries is not a delay....?

[Aquila]

Does Jesus have to come bodily when he comes to us? We feel Jesus come to us every time we have church. In 70 AD.... Jesus came in Judgment against Judea and the reprobate Temple system.

[Raven]

John 14:16-18

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Did not the "Comforter" come at Pentecost?

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Raven

John 14:16-18

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Did not the "Comforter" come at Pentecost?

Paul's words in Colossians were post-Pentecost.

I'm not sure why we'd see Jesus referring to a non-physical parousia. The apocalyptic nature of his statement in Matthew does not fit Pentecost either. All of Israel was not reached BEFORE Pentecost, it was by the power at Pentecost that all of Israel was reached (and they "turned their world upside down").

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Paul's words in Colossians were post-Pentecost.

I'm not sure why we'd see Jesus referring to a non-physical parousia. The apocalyptic nature of his statement in Matthew does not fit Pentecost either. All of Israel was not reached BEFORE Pentecost, it was by the power at Pentecost that all of Israel was reached (and they "turned their world upside down").

I agree with you that Pentecost doesn’t fit here.

However, when dealing with the Parousia I believe that we have to understand “coming” in a biblical way. Regarding his “coming” Jesus said the following,

Matthew 16:28
{16:28} Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Matthew 23:34-39
{23:34} Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city: {23:35} That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. {23:36} Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. {23:37} O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not! {23:38} Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. {23:39} For I
say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Matthew 24:1-3
{24:1} And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to [him] for to shew him the buildings of the temple. {24:2} And Jesus said unto them,
See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. {24:3} And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when
shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matthew 24:29-34
{24:29} Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: {24:30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
{24:31} And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. {24:32} Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: {24:33} So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors. {24:34} Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Matthew 26:63-64
{26:63} But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I
adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. {26:64} Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

The above verses of Scripture are just a very few that will testify to the understanding that many of us has regarding the coming (Parousia) of Jesus.

In Matthew 16:28 Jesus tells us plainly that some currently standing among them would not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

In Matthew 23:34-39 Jesus laments over Jerusalem and warns that her judgment will come in that very generation.

In Matthew 24:1-3 the disciples show Jesus Herod’s Temple. Jesus tells them that not a stone will be left standing of Herod’s Temple. The disciples then come to Jesus privately and ask when this destruction shall come, what will be the sign of his coming, and the end of the age. (Yes, the word translated world here means “age”.)

In Matthew 24:29-34 Jesus uses highly apocalyptic language (as an Old Testament prophet would) depicting the utter destruction of Jerusalem. Jesus then tells them that the “sign” of the Son of Man shall appear in heaven, the tribes of the land shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Remember, the same imagery was used to describe the destruction of ancient Babylon. This is prophetic language that is very powerful and denotes utter destruction. Then Christ states that he will send his angels with the great sound of a trumpet to gather together his elect from one end of heaven to the other. Please note, the angels do not gather us at the Rapture. We are “changed” by the power of the Holy Ghost, the very same Spirit that quickened Christ. Then we are like him and Jesus himself draws us to himself. Angels are seen gathering the wicked and the righteous for judgment… after death,

Luke 16:22
{16:22} And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

What Jesus is saying is that after the great tribulation predicted to befall Jerusalem, the prophetic clock will end for the Temple system and utter destruction shall befall them. This prophecies fulfillment will stand as a testimony of Christ’s prophetic power and judgment when the tribes of the land behold the bellowing smoke and clouds ascending to the heavens as the Holy City burns under the blazing judgment of Jesus Christ. It is at this point that Christ’s kingdom will be asserted over the corrupt Temple system of ancient Judaism that opposed him and rejected him declaring that they had no king but Caesar. From this point forward the holy angels will gather Christ’s elect unto him. And this gathering of the elect has been taking place since. Christ’s kingdom has been asserted over the apostate Judaism of the first century and there is salvation in no other. Jesus then warns that when they see these things begin to come to pass, know that his coming in judgment is near. Then Christ testifies that that very generation shall not pass until all of this prophecy is fulfilled.

You will note… this passage not only fails to include the “Rapture” but it also never mentions the resurrection of the dead or Christ setting foot on earth. This is a prophetic passage, apocalyptic and targeted at the first century Temple system of Jerusalem.

In Matthew 26:63-64 we read about Christ’s interrogation. The high priest demands to know of Jesus if he is the Christ or not. Christ’s answer is powerful. Jesus tells the high priest that he has said, and that the high priest himself would see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power and coming in the clouds of heaven. Clearly the high priest isn’t alive today. If Christ’s words came true, we must understand that the high priest indeed did see the affirmation of Christ’s authority and power in his coming in judgment against Jerusalem in 70 AD. All that Christ said came to pass fully affirming his lordship and kingdom…and testifying to the demise of ancient Judaism.

When thinking about the Parousia it’s important not to think of it as a single event. The Parousia is something that is transpiring. Christ is coming in power and being revealed to the entire world, his judgments beginning with Jerusalem. Consider this comment by Gould in the International Critical Commentary on Mark (p. 252):

"This Settles two things : first, that the coming is not a single event, any more than the sitting on the right hand of power; and second, that it was a thing which was to begin with the very time of our Lord's departure from the world. Moreover, the two things, the sitting on the right hand of power, and the coming, are connected in such a way as to mean that be is to assume power in heaven and exercise it here in the world. The period beginning with the departure of Jesus from the world was to be marked by this assumption of heavenly power by the Christ, and by repeated interferences in crises of the world's history, of which the destruction of Jerusalem was the first."

Jesus isn’t a false prophet. When Christ told them that their very generation would see these things, the destruction of Jerusalem testified to Christ’s authority and power. This indeed was the sign of the coming (Parousia) of the Son of Man.

[mfblume]

Notice the reference made in Matthew 10 is written alongside elements of prophecy that are seen in Matt 24.

Mat 10:17-23 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; (18) And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. (19) But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. (20) For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. (21) And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. (22) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. (23) But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Mat 24:9-14 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. (10) And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. (11) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. (12) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. (13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (14) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Luke 21 as well as Mark 13 corresponds to the Olivet Discourse in Matt 24. In Luke and mark, the same notes found in both Matt 10 and Matt 24 are found.

Luk 21:12-18 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. (13) And it shall turn to you for a testimony. (14) Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: (15) For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. (16) And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. (17) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. (18) But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

Mar 13:9-13 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. (10) And the gospel must first be published among all nations. (11) But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. (12) Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. (13) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Since Matt 10 involves the same elements as Matt 24 and Luke 21, and all three note the coming of the Lord, whatever the coming was in 24 it is the coming in Matt 10.

And Col. 1:5-6, 23 speak of the gospel having gone to ALL THE WORLD by the time Col was written.

Col 1:5-6 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; (6) Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

As Jeffrey said, Colossians was written after Pentecost.

Matt 21:40 shows the sort of coming these instances are about:

Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Does Jesus have to come bodily when he comes to us? We feel Jesus come to us every time we have church. In 70 AD.... Jesus came in Judgment against Judea and the reprobate Temple system.

You might be off your rocker on the a fews things but on the money on this one!!

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Raven

John 14:16-18

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Did not the "Comforter" come at Pentecost?

Some do believe that when Jesus returned as the Comforter within them and no longer the Comforter with as a man, that was the second coming.

[berkeley]

More and more libs are embracing elements of Preterism...