Out of control capital campaigns

Apocrypha · #1 12-17-2009, 10:50 AM

I always keep my ear to the ground and there are more than a few larger churches in the denom that are in severe financial difficulty even to the point of losing their buildings (I can think of 3 just in Florida and 2 in Texas).

One of the new things that i've been hearing about more and more is aggressive capital campaigns in the Jerry Falwell style (the master of building projects from the last century). The latest thing some are trying is to actively solicit folks to add the church to their will and as a beneficiary on the life insurance policies per the advice of the "Capital Campaign Consultants".

Even in the Old Testament God didn't require folks to give their inheritance to the tribe of Levi or the priests (in fact their donations were only off harvests and income per the OT).

I guess this almost loops back into the older thread about building projects slowing the growth of the kingdom... but the more and more I do my budget and pray for God's guidance on how we should plant this church... the more I come to the conclusion that renting is best for worship service and to put the focus on people receiving the spirit and being baptized in the home fellowships to build real community and real growth that can scale to 20,000 people over the long term with geographically linked daughter works.

I don't understand why churches are going so far in asking for money in building bigger buildings when they can simply max their space by going to a multiple repeating service format. By my math a building that seats 250 + 75 kids can have nearly 1000 people in 4-5 services with no stress other than the need to be organized and delegate properly (1 on saturday and 3 on Sunday). Why do we need these 1200-2000 seat monstrosities? Why not just buy or rent a smaller facility and then keep buying/renting satellite churches with a proper IT infrastructure like email/cell sms messages/facebook/website to keep the church cohesive beyond the small group/house church meetings?

I have priced out how much it is to start a renting out church with projector / sound system from musiciansfriend.com / sunday stuff ... and still come to about $8,000 on the high end without operating rent costs or paying a musician from the local Calvary Chapel worship school to help us get started. What insanity is up with these 3-6 million dollar projects that really only help to keep a church financially chained to a building for decades to come?

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/co...hcol_0928.html

Apocrypha · #2 12-17-2009, 10:53 AM

For example.. this sound system is a nice middle grade system that can handle about 300-400 people

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...ge-?sku=501606

total cost? about 1300 with shipping

seguidordejesus · #3 12-17-2009, 11:00 AM

Agree completely.

Apocrypha · #4 12-17-2009, 11:24 AM

http://www.bizjournals.com/southflor...1/daily29.html

another S. Florida church looking at forclosure.

missourimary · #5 12-17-2009, 11:39 AM

So sad. And it isn't just the cost of the buildings, but utilities and maintenance, too.

We were asked to cash in 401ks. They weren't very happy with me when I didn't...

When a church outgrows its building, why not start a daughter church, have a few people go there and start reaching out to a new area? Here there is one huge church, only one other church for 60 miles. Yet they want to build a new, bigger building to house all the people driving distances to come?

Apocrypha · #6 12-17-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missourimary

So sad. And it isn't just the cost of the buildings, but utilities and maintenance, too.

We were asked to cash in 401ks. They weren't very happy with me when I didn't...

When a church outgrows its building, why not start a daughter church, have a few people go there and start reaching out to a new area? Here there is one huge church, only one other church for 60 miles. Yet they want to build a new, bigger building to house all the people driving distances to come?

Thats sad its happened to you. My grandma got hit up a year or two ago at a UPCI church to add them to her estate, but shes pretty broke other than a navy widows pension and social security so no dice there unless they want her beat up car.

I've seen churches grow to nearly 1200 people in a 250 seat building with multiple services. Heck, Saddleback is famous for having 7 services every weekend in a 1800 seat building plus kids area and they run about 14-16,000 ever week. I dont see why many of our churches can run into the 1500-2000 mark with a 300-400 seat facility that they can grab for a reasonable amount (unless they go TBN on it and it has marble and bronze).

Monterrey · #7 12-17-2009, 02:18 PM

Ah, but in order for that Pastor to look successful then he must be building a new building about every five years!

Something about "Pride of life"

rgcraig · #8 12-17-2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missourimary

So sad. And it isn't just the cost of the buildings, but utilities and maintenance, too.

We were asked to cash in 401ks. They weren't very happy with me when I didn't...

When a church outgrows its building, why not start a daughter church, have a few people go there and start reaching out to a new area? Here there is one huge church, only one other church for 60 miles. Yet they want to build a new, bigger building to house all the people driving distances to come?

THAT is pitiful!

I'm sure they said that God would provide for you when the time came.

Well, I would have said, and he'll provide for you without me cashing in my 401(k) too!

DividedThigh · #9 12-17-2009, 02:24 PM

very sad, i always believed the people were the church, not some huge building, this economy reveals the lack of realism in some peoples vision, dt

DividedThigh · #10 12-17-2009, 02:25 PM

by the way any church that promotes people cashing in there 401ks or iras to give to the church, is run by crooks, run, now, dt