Church Choir (Volunteer versus Paid) Question

[PraiseHymn]

Well, our church choir just got word (11/18/09) that Good Morning America and Fox & Friends wants to fly us up to New York City December 22-24 to sing on their show. Woooo hooooo. My question to cyberland is, should the choir now be getting paid (individually) for all the time missed at work while singing for the church at these different functions. Mind you, we still have to go to Nashville, TN for the Stellar Awards (again another big tv moment) AND we have a Christmas concert to perform at the church.

I can tell you this much, I dont have anymore days to take off and no one is paying my bills but myself. It sure would be nice to have a little help if I am being required to have to keep taking off of my secual job. Granted, they provide food and transportation (and of corse the experience to witness and see a beautiful city) but is that enough to keep my household afloat while I run off every time we need to perform?

I'd like some comments.

Thanks

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by PraiseHymn

Well, our church choir just got word (11/18/09) that Good Morning America and Fox & Friends wants to fly us up to New York City December 22-24 to sing on their show. Woooo hooooo. My question to cyberland is, should the choir now be getting paid (individually) for all the time missed at work while singing for the church at these different functions. Mind you, we still have to go to Nashville, TN for the Stellar Awards (again another big tv moment) AND we have a Christmas concert to perform at the church.

I can tell you this much, I dont have anymore days to take off and no one is paying my bills but myself. It sure would be nice to have a little help if I am being required to have to keep taking off of my secual job. Granted, they provide food and transportation (and of corse the experience to witness and see a beautiful city) but is that enough to keep my household afloat while I run off every time we need to perform?

I'd like some comments.

Thanks

Provision means for vision. If you have a vision, and no provision, maybe its the wrong vision. Great that those things are happening, but is it really the Will of God.

[Jeffrey]

This will open up a conversation that I think is important -- that is the battle between a vocation and a ministry. NT ministry was about having food, shelter, etc. Today, it's about another viable career alternative, and is mixed with capitalism, competition and greed. Music artists have come along ways from 1 Cor 14. Preachers are charging for sermons (not just to make more material, but often to make a profit). What's the goal here? What would Paul say to the church today?

Regarding your choir, I certainly understand your predicament (and it's certainly not perfectly fitting with the above). You need your regular income, which you plan and budget for. I'd say if choir members can do it, then do it. If they can't, they should make their needs known to the leader, who can figure out what they will need. It's not an easy solution for sure.

Even the idea of a choir competition sits funny with me, though I recognize the fruit of your winnings, and the doors it has opened for you, as well as recognition in your community. Just thinking out loud.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

If you have a vision, and no provision, maybe its the wrong vision.

Well said. I've lived all this stuff before and wouldn't do it again for all the attention in the world. I'm not a fan.

[Jermyn Davidson]

It depends.

Of course the size of the choir will be a consideration.

Did the members have to try out?

What was the selection process? What are the requirments for staying in the choir?


Then, how much would you pay them and for what?

Singing by the hour or by the event?

Travel?

Per Diem?


It can become very, vey expensive really fast!

If the choir members are paid, do the lead vocalists get paid more for being more anointed singers?



I voted unsure, but it may be better that they are not paid-- allowing them to commit to as much as they can feasibly commit to.

Anything more than that will create issues that MOST CHURCHES (even mega-churches) simply can't afford to take care of.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

It depends.

Of course the size of the choir will be a consideration.

Did the members have to try out?

What was the selection process? What are the requirments for staying in the choir?


Then, how much would you pay them and for what?

Singing by the hour or by the event?

Travel?

Per Diem?


It can become very, vey expensive really fast!

If the choir members are paid, do the lead vocalists get paid more for being more anointed singers?



I voted unsure, but it may be better that they are not paid-- allowing them to commit to as much as they can feasibly commit to.

Anything more than that will create issues that MOST CHURCHES (even mega-churches) simply can't afford to take care of.

No matter what you run into problems. Then if not the skilled lead singer, the band members get paid? If not them, the choir director?

Either way, the money should pay for necessities, not making profits. Paul made tents when he wanted to make a profit. That line is blurred today with music industry, etc.

[jfrog]

A church choir should not get paid. Paying choir members will lead to people being in the choir for the money. Now, helping choir members make it to certain events because they cannot afford to go otherwise may be an option. But that would be "socialist" and doesn't include paying every choir member.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by jfrog

A church choir should not get paid. Paying choir members will lead to people being in the choir for the money. Now, helping choir members make it to certain events because they cannot afford to go otherwise may be an option. But that would be "socialist"

And there's nothing wrong with "socialism" in the church... it's a Jesus thing.

So choir members can't do it for the money, but soloists, band members and producers can?

[MissBrattified]

You mean by the church that hosts them? Yes. Their needs should be met, at the very least. Cover the cost of travel, food and lodging. If a church INVITES a group to minister in their church, they should facilitate the event.

Now, paid for time spent missing work? No. A choir member is a volunteer, and if you commit to a choir tour, you're committing to being there without reimbursement. What's next? Health benefits? LOL!!!!

I understand the quandary, but simply put--if you can't afford to volunteer, then don't. Most church positions should be volunteer, IMO, except when there's a need for someone to be fulltime.

I agree with Keith; if it's the Lord's will for you to go, He'll provide a way.

I'm assuming you're a man (pardon me if that's incorrect), but your first responsibility is to your family--not the choir--no matter how awesome it is! So if going on tour means neglecting your family (e.g., their financial needs), you need to put family first. That doesn't mean your church or the hosting church has to make that decision for you by paying your way; you make the right decision, and if God has other plans for you, He'll make a way.

[MissBrattified]

I'll add a caveat to my post:

IF a choir is going to be a performing group, required to be gone a large amount of time on a regular basis, long term, (this seems like an isolated event rather than a regular occurrence), then the director should be seeking to reimburse members for more than just basic expenses.

Isn't this an anomaly, though? You guys won an award, and now you'll be doing some things related to it--but not for months and years to come--right?