Pastor Toney Visited

Jermyn Davidson · #1 11-16-2009, 05:02 PM

my church yesterday and preached the Sun service.

Bro Howell was there the Sunday before last.

In both sermons, there were elements of encouragement for us to "not change the doctrine."

In fact, Bro. Toney said something that really stands out in my mind: "you can't water down fire."

I understood exactly where he was going-- by preaching that the Holy Ghost infilling with the evidence of speaking in other tongues is NOT ESSENTIAL to one's salvation, then you will effectively put out the Fire of the Holy Spirit in a church.

This is what I understood him to be getting at.

I am torn. I couldn't be a part of a "dead" church-- I'd just as soon not go.

But how do I get around the the Ethiopian and the Philipian jailer's conversion experiences?

I don't want my belief system to be one that adds to the Bible, but I KNOW what I have experienced and what I have been taught and what I hear repeatedly-- from friends and family alike.

I used to get it, a long time ago-- now I don't.

I want to be able to embrace my Biblical faith and Biblical experiences with my mind and my heart.

Apocrypha · #2 11-16-2009, 05:13 PM

From the ESV

Mar 16:15 And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.

Mar 16:16 "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Mar 16:17 "And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

Mar 16:18 "they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Mar 16:19 So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.

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It accompanies or comes after for those who believe and are baptized into the church. Thats the key verse for me as a 2 1/2 stepper.

Jermyn Davidson · #3 11-16-2009, 05:33 PM

so when did you cast out your first demon?

did your salvation commence with you casting the demon out after you spoke in tongues?

This scripture does nothing to address the truths of the Ethiopian and jailer's salvation.

1 Co 1:22 -30 is another scripture that is "problematic" for the way I want to believe.

For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption....

Apocrypha · #4 11-16-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

so when did you cast out your first demon?

did your salvation commence with you casting the demon out after you spoke in tongues?

This scripture does nothing to address the truths of the Ethiopian and jailer's salvation.

1 Co 1:22 -30 is another scripture that is "problematic" for the way I want to believe.

For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption....

I believe folks are fully saved at faith/repentence and baptism.

Jermyn Davidson · #5 11-16-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha

I believe folks are fully saved at faith/repentence and baptism.

So where is the impetus for folks to seek that Holy Ghost fire experience?

How would one keep that fire alive and burning bright in their lives individually and church collectively without the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues?

Apocrypha · #6 11-16-2009, 05:38 PM

Acts Chapter 16 (ESV)

31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, along with everyone in your household.”
32 And they shared the word of the Lord with him and with all who lived in his household.
33 Even at that hour of the night, the jailer cared for them and washed their wounds. Then he and everyone in his household were immediately baptized.
34 He brought them into his house and set a meal before them, and he and his entire household rejoiced because they all believed in God.

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Acts Chapter 8:34-40 (ESV)

And the eunuch said to Philip, “About whom, I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?”

Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus.

And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?”

And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.

And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing.

But Philip found himself at Azotus, and as he passed through he preached the gospel to all the towns until he came to Caesarea.

Jermyn Davidson · #7 11-16-2009, 05:41 PM

Shouldn't every Christian "wait" for that Holy Spirit babptism-- that same baptism that Jesus told His followers to go to Jerusalem to wait for?

If not, why not?

Apocrypha · #8 11-16-2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

So where is the impetus for folks to seek that Holy Ghost fire experience?

How would one keep that fire alive and burning bright in their lives individually and church collectively without the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues?

Acts 19 (ESV)

Act 19:1 And it happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the inland [fn] country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples.

Act 19:2 And he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."

Act 19:3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" They said, "Into John's baptism."

Act 19:4 And Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus."

Act 19:5 On hearing this, they were baptized in [fn] the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.

--------------------------

Receiving the baptism of the Spirit is a empowerment to witness and do miracles after a person believes and that belief is turned into actions by burying their sins in baptism (where we are regenerated in baptism and are now under the New Covenant from the condemnation of the Old)

holinesspk · #9 11-16-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

So where is the impetus for folks to seek that Holy Ghost fire experience?

How would one keep that fire alive and burning bright in their lives individually and church collectively without the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues?

The answer to that is...........you cant.

That "fire" IS the Holy Ghost. Its the Comforter that Jesus promised us. Peter gave us the answer on how to be saved in Acts 2:38.

(Acts 2:37-38 KJV) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Sherri · #10 11-16-2009, 06:08 PM

We have never taught that you had to speak in tongues to go to heaven, but that it is a gift for everyone. In the 2 weeks that I was gone to Brazil, we had 26 people get the Holy Ghost at our Jackson church! Four on Sunday morning in the Edge, seven on a Wed. night, and 15 in our youth conference. You don't lose the "fire" unless you just don't want the fire. Personally, I don't ever want to lose it!!