Provoking Israel to Jealousy

Neubill · #1 08-26-2009, 04:24 AM

The Apostle Paul tells the 'non-Jews' to provoke the Jewish people to jealousy. This means different things to different people.

What does it mean to you?

What do you think will provoke Israel to jealousy?

I'm hoping to provoke discussion in this thread.

mfblume · #2 08-26-2009, 09:51 AM

I believe it means to live a blessed life that is abundantly clear that it can only come from God. And I do not just mean material blessings. Having peace in the midst of a storm, for example. I do not think it is political or governmental. But it certainly excludes any thoughts of hatred towards them, lol.

Neubill · #3 09-16-2009, 08:16 PM

Thank you Bro. Blume for posting in this thread.

Here's what I believe will provoke Israel to jealousy: when they see the believers of Jesus keeping God's Commandments (in Spirit and Truth) and operating in the gifts and power of the Holy Spirit.

mfblume · #4 09-17-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neubill

Thank you Bro. Blume for posting in this thread.

Here's what I believe will provoke Israel to jealousy: when they see the believers of Jesus keeping God's Commandments (in Spirit and Truth) and operating in the gifts and power of the Holy Spirit.

Thanks, brother. Do you believe these commandments are the ten commandments, for example? And if so, is keeping them in Spirit and truth not necessarily keeping a 7th day holy, but keeping what the seventh day represented and foreshadowed, i.e. an eternal rest in God's Spirit every day of our lives?

mfblume · #5 09-17-2009, 12:13 PM

Not many posted here, did they?

Neubill · #6 09-18-2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Thanks, brother. Do you believe these commandments are the ten commandments, for example?

Yes, and more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

And if so, is keeping them in Spirit and truth not necessarily keeping a 7th day holy, but keeping what the seventh day represented and foreshadowed, i.e. an eternal rest in God's Spirit every day of our lives?

In reference to the Sabbath, keeping it in Spirit and Truth means doing it the way Jesus did it instead of leaning on our own understanding.

The 'rest' refers to ceasing from our effort to obtain salvation.
Since we have salvation through Jesus, we can now cease from trying to be saved by our own works/deeds/efforts. However, having this eternal rest in Jesus does not preclude us from keeping the Sabbath day holy, nor does it give us permission to create a Sabbath day that fits our lifestyle or situation, i.e. choosing Sunday to be one's Sabbath day.

NOTE: Worshiping Jesus on Sunday is not the issue. There's nothing wrong with Sunday worship. The issue is what we do on Saturday.

Neubill · #7 09-18-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Not many posted here, did they?

And probably because most people aren't interested in the salvation of the Jewish people.
Dispensationalism teaches that when Jesus raptures The Church from earth, The LORD of HOSTS will again turn His attention to Israel and protect them through The Tribulation period, culminating in their complete deliverance by Jesus and His Saints along with the archangel Michael and his army of angels. Most Christians are influenced by dispensational teachings and therefore aren't concerned about sharing Jesus with Jewish people when they believe that God has a special plan for them anyway.

Both dispensationalism and dual covenant theology are as phony as a 3 dollar bill.

mfblume · #8 09-19-2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neubill

Yes, and more.

In reference to the Sabbath, keeping it in Spirit and Truth means doing it the way Jesus did it instead of leaning on our own understanding.

The 'rest' refers to ceasing from our effort to obtain salvation.
Since we have salvation through Jesus, we can now cease from trying to be saved by our own works/deeds/efforts. However, having this eternal rest in Jesus does not preclude us from keeping the Sabbath day holy, nor does it give us permission to create a Sabbath day that fits our lifestyle or situation, i.e. choosing Sunday to be one's Sabbath day.

NOTE: Worshiping Jesus on Sunday is not the issue. There's nothing wrong with Sunday worship. The issue is what we do on Saturday.

I guess we disagree here. Saturday is no more holy than any other day. All days are holy to the believer. I think that keeping the Sabbath in Spirit and truth is keeping the antitype of the seventh day, which is a spiritual entrance that Adam never did experience. The seventh day was only a shadow. And it was a memorial for OLD creation, of which we are no longer a part. We are a new creation, and the rest is not a 24 hour period, but a LIFE.

We keep the BODY and not the shadow of the body, which body is Christ. Regards!

Neubill · #9 09-21-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I guess we disagree here.

That's OK, my friend. This is what message boards were made for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I guess we disagree here. Saturday is no more holy than any other day. All days are holy to the believer. Does that include the believers from Acts 21 (including Paul and James) who remained zealous for Torah? I think not. They kept the Sabbath day holy. Contrary to what churchianity teaches, Jesus did not make the other six days of the week holy.

I think that keeping the Sabbath in Spirit and truth is keeping the antitype of the seventh day, which is a spiritual entrance that Adam never did experience. The seventh day was only a shadow. A conceptual understanding of the Sabbath day is one thing, but a conceptual observance of the Sabbath is not in the heart and plan of God.
The 7th day is the first thing God made as holy, sanctified, and set apart. He desired that His People (including you...) keep His Day holy and special, so much so that He placed it ahead of the commandments regarding the honoring of father & mother and the prohibitions on murder, adultery, theft, lying, and coveting. While daily prayer is our opportunity to meet with God, the Sabbath is God's opportunity to meet with us, on His terms. It is the first of God's Appointed Times in Leviticus 23 (God's Day-Planner), when He desires to meet with His People in all their dwellings. The believer who celebrates the Sabbath celebrates the Lord of The Sabbath. It's far more than a shadow, Brother Blume.

And it was a memorial for OLD creation, of which we are no longer a part. We are a new creation, and the rest is not a 24 hour period, but a LIFE.

It is also a memorial of Israel's deliverance from bondage. For the believer, it is a memorial of our deliverance from the spiritual bondage of sin and a reminder that we serve God, not Pharaoh/The Adversary.
And wasn't Paul a new creation? He seemed to think that the Sabbath, along with the rest of Torah was worth keeping. Being a new creation does not preclude us from entering into the day that God wants to meet with us. It is an everlasting ordinance (chukat olam in hebrew). It is both a 24 hour ceasing AND a life.

We keep the BODY and not the shadow of the body, which body is Christ.
Please read Col 2 again. The Sabbath is a shadow of things to come (not things that came), and the substance/body is Messiah. Yeshua is not only the shadow caster, but is also in the shadows. People say, "You can have the shadows, just give me Jesus." Brother Blume, give me Jesus AND the shadows, because I want ALL of Him! Knowing that Jesus is in these shadows, people actually end up discarding Jesus when they dismiss the observance of the Sabbath and the Feasts. When we celebrate the shadows, we celebrate Jesus because He is in the shadows.

Regards!
And to you as well! May God bless you with understanding and revelation in the area of the Jewishness of our faith

Neubill · #10 09-21-2009, 04:19 PM

Back on topic...

Who is our King? Jesus!
And His reign? Jesus is the King of Israel.

The King of Israel is commanded by The Torah to keep Torah and read it to all of Israel towards the end of each Sabbatical year (giving the land a rest every seven years).

Our King Jesus is supposed to keep Torah. If we're the subjects of His Kingdom (His followers), we're supposed to keep Torah just like the King.

Jewish people will be provoked to jealousy when they see the followers of Jesus keeping Torah (with zeal) and operating in the power of the Holy Spirit. They'll want what we have so bad just like Simon The Sorcerer in the Book of Acts.