Essentiality of Godhead

FaithtoFaith · #1 05-18-2009, 11:42 PM

Undoubtedly, Christ spent much time explaining who He was, and caring who the disciples believed He was. The apostles spent many letters articulating the deity of Christ, and battled religious sects that somehow tried to alter his divinity. Question for the forum:

If a brother professes and holds to the doctrine of the Trinity, as many due because of centuries of tradition, but they profess that Jesus is God in flesh -- where do they err? Is this a mute point we often make? Should we focus on how to reconcile the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, as much as articulate that Jesus is Lord?

When Christ said, "Except ye believe that I AM (He), ye shall die in your sins." Oneness theologians like to use this to mean Christ was was saying, "except you have a theology that understand who I am in relationship to the personhood and offices of God, you will die. That's absurd. 99% of the North American couldn't hold water in a theology debate on the oneness of God -- but they all believe with conviction that God is ONE! Should we erase our line of division and allow liberty on this point?

Warmly Yours,

Jesus Name, One God Believer.

Neck · #2 05-18-2009, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FaithtoFaith

Undoubtedly, Christ spent much time explaining who He was, and caring who the disciples believed He was. The apostles spent many letters articulating the deity of Christ, and battled religious sects that somehow tried to alter his divinity. Question for the forum:

If a brother professes and holds to the doctrine of the Trinity, as many due because of centuries of tradition, but they profess that Jesus is God in flesh -- where do they err? Is this a mute point we often make? Should we focus on how to reconcile the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, as much as articulate that Jesus is Lord?

When Christ said, "Except ye believe that I AM (He), ye shall die in your sins." Oneness theologians like to use this to mean Christ was was saying, "except you have a theology that understand who I am in relationship to the personhood and offices of God, you will die. That's absurd. 99% of the North American couldn't hold water in a theology debate on the oneness of God -- but they all believe with conviction that God is ONE! Should we erase our line of division and allow liberty on this point?

Warmly Yours,

Jesus Name, One God Believer.

The problem with the debate is the maybe only 10% really understand what they think they believe...

Sam · #3 05-19-2009, 12:11 AM

Many years ago, an elderly minister named "Doc" Gosey told us at the ALJC church where I was going at that time that trinity and oneness people actually believe the same but they just explain it differently.

mizpeh · #4 05-19-2009, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FaithtoFaith

Undoubtedly, Christ spent much time explaining who He was, and caring who the disciples believed He was. The apostles spent many letters articulating the deity of Christ, and battled religious sects that somehow tried to alter his divinity. Question for the forum:

If a brother professes and holds to the doctrine of the Trinity, as many due because of centuries of tradition, but they profess that Jesus is God in flesh -- where do they err? Is this a mute point we often make? Should we focus on how to reconcile the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, as much as articulate that Jesus is Lord?

When Christ said, "Except ye believe that I AM (He), ye shall die in your sins." Oneness theologians like to use this to mean Christ was was saying, "except you have a theology that understand who I am in relationship to the personhood and offices of God, you will die. That's absurd. 99% of the North American couldn't hold water in a theology debate on the oneness of God -- but they all believe with conviction that God is ONE! Should we erase our line of division and allow liberty on this point?

Warmly Yours,

Jesus Name, One God Believer.

Who do you call brother? Those who believe Jesus is the Son of God? Those who repent and are converted? Those who are baptized in Jesus name? Those who receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

What do you think about what Jesus told the woman at the well...23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Does the doctrine of the Trinity represent the truth of God?

FaithtoFaith · #5 05-19-2009, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Who do you call brother? Those who believe Jesus is the Son of God? Those who repent and are converted? Those who are baptized in Jesus name? Those who receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

What do you think about what Jesus told the woman at the well...23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Does the doctrine of the Trinity represent the truth of God?

It certainly represents A truth of God, thought I don't accept its creed. But truly neither do many of its badge wearers -- similar to our ranks, where many can't get knee-deep into a theology discussion about who He is. The most important thing for them to understand is that He is the Son of God, God in flesh, the Messiah, the Divine one, the fullness of the godhead bodily. What else matters? How they reconcile Father, Word and Spirit.

I do object to them paying tribute to "Father God", etc... but they are using Biblical language to approach a godhead that to them is somewhat mysterious. Let's face it, there are mysteries no matter which side you line up on. Try truly understanding and explaining how a God can be fully God and fully man? How can He be both fully two separate things? Who was in heaven when Christ came to Earth. Sure, we have explanations for these thing, but it's untruthful to say it's not mind numbing.

Bottom line: they believe He is He

FaithtoFaith · #6 05-19-2009, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Who do you call brother? Those who believe Jesus is the Son of God? Those who repent and are converted? Those who are baptized in Jesus name? Those who receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

What do you think about what Jesus told the woman at the well...23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Does the doctrine of the Trinity represent the truth of God?

Who does the Bible give me permission to call "brother?"

I do know that the disciples didn't fully know who Christ was when he called them and they traveled city to city. They began to know who He was after walking with Him for sometime and seeing His hand at work. Theology is important, but it often meets us at the door, muffling the call to "follow me so I can make you fishers of men."

FaithtoFaith · #7 05-19-2009, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

Many years ago, an elderly minister named "Doc" Gosey told us at the ALJC church where I was going at that time that trinity and oneness people actually believe the same but they just explain it differently.

Perhaps our outcome is closely similar... but there is some core differences. I'm not sure they are damnable or heretical. I've been called a heretic by fundamentalists for denouncing the Trinity -- I wish all of Christendom would drop the barricade of words, and approach this deity as an outsider, using Scripture alone, and not Catholic creeds. The protestants that called me a heretic, I reminded them how heretical they were to insist on justification by faith.

mizpeh · #8 05-19-2009, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FaithtoFaith

Who does the Bible give me permission to call "brother?"

Those who have been born again to become the children of God through Jesus Christ. John 1:12

FaithtoFaith · #9 05-19-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Those who have been born again to become the children of God through Jesus Christ. John 1:12

That's what I was thinking:

KJV
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

ESV
12But to all who did receive him,(A) who believed in his name,(B) he gave the right(C) to become(D) children of God,

NLT
12 But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God.

Where did you get born again on this? He calls Children of God, those who believed him and accepted him. I say this to avoid the usual "born again" debate too. Just keeping us honest.

gloryseeker · #10 05-19-2009, 11:24 AM

What I think is funny about the discussion of the godhead is that people really think that they can explain God. Sure there are scriptures that talk about Him, the oneness have their and the trinity has theirs. They are all out of the Bible and are all subject to debate.

But when you get down to "GOD." Do you really think that your finite mind has comprehended GOD? Like the heavens above the earth His thoughts and ways are above ours...when we actually get down to the His Person do you really think that you have a full understanding?

Personally, I don't think so. I think that it is a mute discussion. Understanding that Jesus is Lord, that He died in our place, and that He is raised from the dead is the essential of the conversation. From there we grow, we learn to be more like Him, but don't condemn people because they don't understand His personage. I am confident, you don't either