Bible Question

Michael The Disciple · #1 01-11-2009, 01:15 AM

In Malachi chapter 3 we find this prophecy.

1: Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to this temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. Mal. 3:1

Yet when it is referenced in the New Testament we find:

2: As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. Mark 1:2 in apparent reference to Mal. 3:1

10: For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. Matt. 11:10

These references from the gospels do not seem to match the scripture from Malachi as given through the Massoretic Text.

Here is the Malachi verse from the Septuagint version:

1 “Behold, I send forth My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me: and the Lord, whom you seek, shall suddenly come into His temple, even the Messenger of the covenant, whom you take pleasure in: behold, He is coming,” says the Lord Almighty.

While this agrees with the Massoretic Text it still does not seem to match the quotation of it in the Gospels.

The question is therefore what Version of the Tanakh did the early Church use since what they referenced does not agree with what we are reading?

brotherjason · #2 01-11-2009, 08:01 AM

I'm sorry I don't have time to look it up at the moment (we live in the sticks and it's a long way to church), but I believe the quote in the gospels there are quoting Isaiah. I could be wrong but it seems to me I have read it there, I'll look when I get home. I'm not afraid to be wrong, just trying to help.
Jason

Michael The Disciple · #3 01-11-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brotherjason

I'm sorry I don't have time to look it up at the moment (we live in the sticks and it's a long way to church), but I believe the quote in the gospels there are quoting Isaiah. I could be wrong but it seems to me I have read it there, I'll look when I get home. I'm not afraid to be wrong, just trying to help.
Jason

Thanks Jason.

TK Burk · #4 01-11-2009, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brotherjason

I'm sorry I don't have time to look it up at the moment (we live in the sticks and it's a long way to church), but I believe the quote in the gospels there are quoting Isaiah. I could be wrong but it seems to me I have read it there, I'll look when I get home. I'm not afraid to be wrong, just trying to help.
Jason

(Isa 40:3) The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Mark 1:2-3
(2) As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
(3) The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Mat 3:1-3
(1) In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judea,
(2) And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
(3) For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

OneAccord · #5 01-11-2009, 09:27 AM

Malachi 3
1Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

This seems to be speaking of 2 separate messengers.

1. Messenger (John the Baptist)
2. The Messenger of the Covenant (The Lord Jesus).

When this verse is alluded to in the Gospels, it is referencing the first part of Malachi 3:1, which deals with the one who prepares the way for the Messenger of the Covenant.

John came in the spirit of Elijah as a messenger to prepare Israel (and the world) for the coming of the Christ, the Messenger of the Covenant.

Kind of simple answer, I know...but I don't know anything about Massoretic Text, Septuagint versions and the Tanakh.

Mal. 3:1 (a) references John the Baptist: 1Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me:

Mal. 3:1 (b) references, Jesus, the Messenger of the Covenant. and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to this temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Bro-Larry · #6 01-11-2009, 09:34 AM

Jesus, most often quoted from the Septuigent Version.

brotherjason · #7 01-11-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TK Burk

(Isa 40:3) The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Mark 1:2-3
(2) As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
(3) The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Mat 3:1-3
(1) In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judea,
(2) And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
(3) For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Thank you Mr. Burk!! Saved me from digging!!

pelathais · #8 01-11-2009, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

In Malachi chapter 3 we find this prophecy.

1: Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to this temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. Mal. 3:1

Yet when it is referenced in the New Testament we find:

2: As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. Mark 1:2 in apparent reference to Mal. 3:1

10: For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. Matt. 11:10

These references from the gospels do not seem to match the scripture from Malachi as given through the Massoretic Text.

Here is the Malachi verse from the Septuagint version:

1 “Behold, I send forth My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me: and the Lord, whom you seek, shall suddenly come into His temple, even the Messenger of the covenant, whom you take pleasure in: behold, He is coming,” says the Lord Almighty.

While this agrees with the Massoretic Text it still does not seem to match the quotation of it in the Gospels.

The question is therefore what Version of the Tanakh did the early Church use since what they referenced does not agree with what we are reading?

Most, though certainly not all of the Old Testament quotes found in the New Testament come from the Septuagint. One thing that stands out if you compare all the NT quotes of the OT is that the NT writers were obviously not always interested in doing a "cut and paste" type of quote but would sometimes make references to what was said or sum it up and quote the gist of the OT passage.

It was the copious use of the Septuagint by the NT writers that led St. Jerome and later catholic scholars to favor the LXX over the Hebrew Tanakh even though Jerome himself was an excellent Hebrew scholar. This of course led to the use of the Septuagint in the Vulgate and all Roman Catholic translations - in fact almost all versions of the Bible until the Reformation.

Praxeas · #9 01-12-2009, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

In Malachi chapter 3 we find this prophecy.

1: Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to this temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. Mal. 3:1

Yet when it is referenced in the New Testament we find:

2: As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. Mark 1:2 in apparent reference to Mal. 3:1

10: For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. Matt. 11:10

These references from the gospels do not seem to match the scripture from Malachi as given through the Massoretic Text.

Here is the Malachi verse from the Septuagint version:

1 “Behold, I send forth My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me: and the Lord, whom you seek, shall suddenly come into His temple, even the Messenger of the covenant, whom you take pleasure in: behold, He is coming,” says the Lord Almighty.

While this agrees with the Massoretic Text it still does not seem to match the quotation of it in the Gospels.

The question is therefore what Version of the Tanakh did the early Church use since what they referenced does not agree with what we are reading?

It was because either they quoted the LXX or the Gospel author was making a point by making Christ the "me"...which would point to His Deity...imo

Praxeas · #10 01-12-2009, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro-Larry

Jesus, most often quoted from the Septuigent Version.

I doubt that. If he did I think one of the strict. conservative, non- greek speaking Pharisees or sad you sees would have said something. Jesus probably did not speak english nor did he speak much greek. He spoke Aramaic. He was in Israel not the Diaspora. When he read from the scroll in the temple or synagogue it was in aramaic/hebrew.

It was the authors that wrote the gospels in greek and who probably quoted the LXX