My visit to a UPC Church~Shocking Details~

[Cookin-with-Stoneking]

This last week I had the luxury to visit a local UPC church in the location where I was away on travel. As a minister who has been out of and away from the org. for sometime I thought it would be interesting to visit my family of origin.

This was a very large church with a pastor/leader that is in official positions within the organization and district.

The building was very nice and very up to date with its decorations. The very young greeter seemed shocked to see me, when I walked in.

The preservice prayer was led by a lively, passion filled youth leader. Brought back precious memories of when I was involved in the work.

I sat down where I would be noticed to see the response of the folks, only one sister walked up introduced herself to me and asked me my name.

About 150-200 multi-cultural people gathered in the large auditorium for service. Good worship and lively singing. What impresses me about UPC people they love God; this continues to be my initial feeling and observation vs. other groups and movements. UPC people really love God, it shows and there is a increase in the presence of God in the midst because of this.

I think there is an imbalance in focus/beliefs about standards and outward issues, but I think the result of a disciplined obedient lifestyle is love for God. I still believe we should live disciplined lives not to earn, or maintain salvation but simply out of love and grateful lives.

As the service went on, various saints came over and greeted me and their concern was genuine.

An usher handed me a visitor card and asked me to fill it out. When I did, I he rushed it up to the pastor on the platform when I marked my vocation as a Pastor/Minister.

A minister on staff was given the task of preaching the midweek service. He was passionate and sincere, but all over the map as far as organization of his message, he initially talked about wanting to get down where we were living but in my mind failed to achieve that task. Most of his message was directed at the value and reason God places a pastor in your life and how we need to take their role and voice serious in our lives. His text in Romans didn't really match too much of what he said. He through in some issues about God helping us through difficult times, we don't need to pull back.

Being back in that setting helped me to realize, I myself need a fresh set of eyes to give me feedback about things I get used to that often need to be addressed from a visitors standpoint.

OP/UPS folks have a unique culture and I think that there is not a real bridge for people outside of it to try it/understand it/partake of it without resisting it because it is so shocking. i.e. Culture=Jesus

Akin to pushing someone into the deep end of a pool without allowing them to test the water and learn to swim.

My conclusions of the visit:

UPC people love God

I appreciate the wonderful things about my heritage, I miss the structure and discipline and even the willingness/obedience to follow leadership that is missing in other movements and groups

It is a unique cultural movement that often outsiders are overwhelmed and have a hard time bridging. We interpret for other language groups, I think they need to interpret and speak the language of the culture where they can without compromising their convictions (I guess that to be the real issue of why they don't build a bridge)

I was impressed by this church's reputation for ministry and its various ethnic outreaches and their impact in the community.

The pastor/district official was very friendly, when I told him who I was and my background he warmed to me immediately and gave him his card and offered to buy me lunch, I appreciate this kindness.

By the way I wasn't shocked by the visit, just I wanted a title to draw attention to my thread.

[Blubayou]

Much of what you say is insightful and valid and I agree with it. I do think there are churches that do a good job of bridging the cultural gap by breaking up into smaller home groups that meet during the week or providing small group sessions at the church. One thing have come to appreciate about the church I now attend is there is no pressure from the pulpit to " line up" to outward standards. This does not mean that the minister does not occasionally mention outward standards, because he does, but they are not the focus of his ministry or his sermons. I go to a church were there are members at all levels of growth and they are accepted, loved and in many cases used. I realize that this church is probably in the minority among churches, I am just pointing out that they are out there.
The one thing I found distressing was that when they found out you were a minister or who you were, the attitude changed toward you. It is probably just human to do this, but I think were are expected to be more like Christ in our interactions with strangers whatever our station or family background.

[Cindy]

Sounds like you had a warm welcome and great experience.

[bkstokes]

I think you were as objective as possible in your review. I also believe that the "standards" have the ability to create such a cultural gap that it makes it hard for the UPCI churches to relate to their communities.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Blubayou

The one thing I found distressing was that when they found out you were a minister or who you were, the attitude changed toward you. It is probably just human to do this, but I think were are expected to be more like Christ in our interactions with strangers whatever our station or family background.

I dont think that should be something to get distressed over.
It is traditional in Pentecostal churches that we give special honor/recognition to visiting pastors and preachers, often by acknowledging them from the platform and/or asking them to give a quick greeting or word of testimony to the congregation.

There is New Testament basis for giving special honor to ministers of he gospel. Nothing bad about that.

[LaVonne]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I dont think that should be something to get distressed over.
It is traditinal in Pentecostal churches that we give special honor/recognition to visiting pastors and preachers, often by acknowledging them from the platform and/or asking them to give a quick greeting or word of testimony to the congregation.

There is New Testament basis for giving special honor to ministers of he gospel. Nothing bad about that.

Yes, this is traditional in Pentecostal churches, but I agree with Blubyou. I personally feel leadership in the UPC is overrated and they are lifted up above the saints..that's just my personal opinion from experience.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Cookin-with-Stoneking

This last week I had the luxury to visit a local UPC church in the location where I was away on travel. As a minister who has been out of and away from the org. for sometime I thought it would be interesting to visit my family of origin.

This was a very large church with a pastor/leader that is in official positions within the organization and district.

The building was very nice and very up to date with its decorations. The very young greeter seemed shocked to see me, when I walked in.

The preservice prayer was led by a lively, passion filled youth leader. Brought back precious memories of when I was involved in the work.

I sat down where I would be noticed to see the response of the folks, only one sister walked up introduced herself to me and asked me my name.

About 150-200 multi-cultural people gathered in the large auditorium for service. Good worship and lively singing. What impresses me about UPC people they love God; this continues to be my initial feeling and observation vs. other groups and movements. UPC people really love God, it shows and there is a increase in the presence of God in the midst because of this.

I think there is an imbalance in focus/beliefs about standards and outward issues, but I think the result of a disciplined obedient lifestyle is love for God. I still believe we should live disciplined lives not to earn, or maintain salvation but simply out of love and grateful lives.

As the service went on, various saints came over and greeted me and their concern was genuine.

An usher handed me a visitor card and asked me to fill it out. When I did, I he rushed it up to the pastor on the platform when I marked my vocation as a Pastor/Minister.

A minister on staff was given the task of preaching the midweek service. He was passionate and sincere, but all over the map as far as organization of his message, he initially talked about wanting to get down where we were living but in my mind failed to achieve that task. Most of his message was directed at the value and reason God places a pastor in your life and how we need to take their role and voice serious in our lives. His text in Romans didn't really match too much of what he said. He through in some issues about God helping us through difficult times, we don't need to pull back.

Being back in that setting helped me to realize, I myself need a fresh set of eyes to give me feedback about things I get used to that often need to be addressed from a visitors standpoint.

OP/UPS folks have a unique culture and I think that there is not a real bridge for people outside of it to try it/understand it/partake of it without resisting it because it is so shocking. i.e. Culture=Jesus

Akin to pushing someone into the deep end of a pool without allowing them to test the water and learn to swim.

My conclusions of the visit:

UPC people love God

I appreciate the wonderful things about my heritage, I miss the structure and discipline and even the willingness/obedience to follow leadership that is missing in other movements and groups

It is a unique cultural movement that often outsiders are overwhelmed and have a hard time bridging. We interpret for other language groups, I think they need to interpret and speak the language of the culture where they can without compromising their convictions (I guess that to be the real issue of why they don't build a bridge)

I was impressed by this church's reputation for ministry and its various ethnic outreaches and their impact in the community.

The pastor/district official was very friendly, when I told him who I was and my background he warmed to me immediately and gave him his card and offered to buy me lunch, I appreciate this kindness.

By the way I wasn't shocked by the visit, just I wanted a title to draw attention to my thread.

Nice to see a non-bashing thread towards good people. I do agree about your perspective about building bridges. I think we miss the whole application of the incarnation, God became a man to reach man. I think this to be a worthwhile yet risky endeavour that will help us reach sinchere and hungry people. Jesus knew how to whet people's appetite and use the power of curiosity.

[Withdrawn]

This thread is like a breath of fresh air. While I've often been a little aggressive stating what I believe and why, I've always tried to do it in a way that doesn't degrade anyone else. One time I did post something about how a former pastor had offended me, but withdrew it when it became apparent that people thought I was bashing rather than reaching out for help in dealing with it.

We can have differences without division. Thank you for pointing out that fellowship is a spiritual affair, and for not bashing anyone in the process.

[A_PoMo]

I agree with your assessment that UPC people have a deep, vibrant passion for God and that is their chief asset.

I kinda disagree with your assessment that other orgs are less willing to follow leadership. That's a human nature thing and more or less equally true across the religious spectrum, and somewhat based on the culture of the area where the church is located. I have not experienced any less willingness to follow a pastor than when in the UPC. Sure, there are some spiritually abusive environments, both in and out of the UPC, where the people have blind faith and that is an uhealthy thing not worthy of emulation. But, overall, I've found that people outside of the UPC are just as willing to follow a pastor than in the UPC.

[Cookin-with-Stoneking]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

I agree with your assessment that UPC people have a deep, vibrant passion for God and that is their chief asset.

I kinda disagree with your assessment that other orgs are less willing to follow leadership. That's a human nature thing and more or less equally true across the religious spectrum, and somewhat based on the culture of the area where the church is located. I have not experienced any less willingness to follow a pastor than when in the UPC. Sure, there are some spiritually abusive environments, both in and out of the UPC, where the people have blind faith and that is an uhealthy thing not worthy of emulation. But, overall, I've found that people outside of the UPC are just as willing to follow a pastor than in the UPC.

As being one that has pastored in a number of areas, been apart of leadership teams both in and out of the UPC, been to conferences with every type of flavor, baptist, vineyard, AOG, independent, UPC, etc.

I think in my observation the zeal to follow leadership is much more developed and adovated in the UPC than in other groups. Now the idea of unhealthy leaders and other abusive types was not the focus of my thread. But I was and still am impressed with general regard and respect that UPC have for their leadership.