Lately I have noticed lots of comments on the UPCI. What I say here is not that I am for or against those that left for I do NOT even belong.
However when we leave something that served us why not leave in grace and just go on...Close that chapter....Let them go on and you go on...Why vomit on the table where you once ate?
Everybody in leadership has had those people who couldn´t stay out of your house and as long as you were feeding them you were heaven sent...but the day the table was empty they were gone...and telling how evil you (organization) were.
I know a former missionary that left Brazil many years ago and the people would write this missionary, try to contact this missionary but the former missionary said to me, "Janice, If I contact the people in the end I will cause confusion. I love the people ENOUGH not to contact them"
I was young back then and thought that was strange for she had raised up a work from nothing...it in reality was her work but due to circumstances she felt to leave.
Now many years have passed and I can look back and I see seh did the right thing. She did not keep a stir and an unrest...she just gracefully walked out.
I was so young back then I really thought she ought to keep contact. After all they were her babies so to speak...she had not come in and worked in someone else´s work and taken advantage of anyone. They were the product of her labor.
Today that work still goes on...today I know if she would have kept in contact there would have been unrest until today...She was godly enough to make the right decision.
That is how I feel about people leaving any group...it is fine to leave but have enough grace to LEAVE...
In reality this person in my eyes was done wrong but the souls involved meant more to her than her personal feelings...a rare thing in the world today.
...and this is to no certain person or group...just my thoughts...
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Sister Alvear, those who talk bitterly, do so, IMO, because they don't have a clear conscience. Beam and splinter.
These men of God were talking about one another before there was any "split", and many of them continue their bad behavior, and unless and until they allow God to change their hearts and help them bite their tongues, the affliction will continue to fester. This separation could have been done correctly, it could have been done amicably, but it wasn't. The people who were for it headed it up like they were the great crusaders leading the charge against evil men--but that was just the story they told themselves to soothe their consciences, because it was patently unethical, the way it was handled, and they know it. And the men they were crusading against were/are their brothers in arms--not *the enemy.*
Secondly, a soft answer turns away wrath, and those who were AGAINST the dissenters could have responded differently--but they didn't. They could have responded respectfully, but for the most part--they haven't.
When I see a man talk viciously about his brother, I think he is trying to divert attention from his own short comings. Kind of like the men who brought the adulterous woman to Jesus..."Look what SHE did." No, look at who YOU are!
The kingdom of God deserved better than this--from both sides. Men have behaved badly, and so far their pride (collectively speaking) has prevented most (if not all) of them from confessing it.
Those are just my observations from the nosebleed section.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Excellent post. I am amazed at how many Christians seem to have a total disregard for the fruit of the Spirit and other Christian values when it comes to these things.
Bitterness is a consuming thing that is contrary to the very core of Christianity. Yet we see it rear its ugly head again and again.
I think some of those caught in the grip of bitterness justify it to themselves as "rightous indignation".
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
What gets old too is when some think just because you are gone from UPC that you are bitter. Not all of us are bitter. (and those 'some' ARE NOT Sis. Alvear)
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Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
this is a little off the topic but can be connected...
As a lifetime missionary I sure have made LOTS of mistakes but one thing I can say both as a missionary, a leader and an overseer: Not always, but in general terms there are always those in it for a free lunch. There is no perfect organization, no perfect fellowship, no perfect people. We must learn to live our convictions in an imperfect world.
No leader can please everybody. You will get sick trying... Everybody has their friends and friends are the ones that usually destroy friends by NOT telling them the truth. Just saying things to please people.
I will give an example we all know...the grass is greener on the other side...but after we get there and live a while it is not near as green as we thought.
I know many good people that have been destroyed by PRIDE...to proud to say I was wrong and "friends" in the background telling them "you are right." Most of the time those so called friends...buddy buddy... are the very ones on down the road that will destroy you.
Just this morning I had a person in my office wanting advice...I gave the person advice that the humble route would work the best KNOWING they would not take it...because their friends are telling them different...(Nothing church related but they wanted my thoughts)
We have a boy in one of our churches that has a serious health problem but had rather die than ask for help. I got him help but he did not want the help because it would be humbling to his pride to get in as a poor person...I told him, son the last 2 times I have went to the doctor I went and waited and waited for a free visit...I waited almost 6 hours with the nurse that asked the doctor to please attend me...It was a long wait but I met the nicest doctor and got help...
I am not saying the UPC is right or wrong...I am sure men left and they had their reasons...just like we all have our reasons. This applies to any situation.
Some reasons people leave and make wrong decisions:
Self Pity....nobody knows what I am going through... I am almost all alone in this...
Fear...
Peer Pressure
Pride...as mentioned...Pride goth before destruction...
Long after people "do their thing" results will still be there. And even if the person gets right or maybe is right but made the wrong decision...they carry scars for life...
Many times children that lived through it become bitter and never serve God...
I always think of Pharaoh and the many times he told Moses, "I have sinned..." He knew he sinned but could not come to a place of REAL repentance...
Some people repent because it is the right thing to do but not because they are really sorry...
Like one lady that her husband was caught with another women...was found in the alter crying and telling his wife he was sorry...she did not seem impressed...someone asked her why, she replied, "he is not sorry just sorry he got caught..."
Well, that did not have a lot to do with the topic but that is what comes to my mind...
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What gets old too is when some think just because you are gone from UPC that you are bitter. Not all of us are bitter. (and those 'some' ARE NOT Sis. Alvear)
So true...Sherri and I sat over lunch when I was home and she did not say one evil word about the UPC...Such a kind sweet spirit...
That is what I am saying...we can leave anything...build our life and not run anyone down.
Love you.
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Life has taught me a lot of lessons...(THE UNIVERSITY OF LIFE) if some situation doen´t work...just bow out gracefully...
I hope Sherri doesn´t mind me mentioning her...if she does please erase my posts however I have noticed on this forum and in real life she shows such love for people that were once a great part of her life. She does not believe like they do however she remembers their good times together...
She has went on with life and in involved in what she feels is God´s will.
Other posters are good examples of this such as MOW...he went on with life...
I have had to break away from some of the people I loved...not one person can say I have said an evil word against them. We just don´t see things alike...
I know as a leader you do make enemies...that just happens...but we don´t have to eat them for every meal.
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If it is for one of our direct needs please mark it on the check.
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