What was a "Gentile"?

[Brad Murphy]

I rarely start threads anymore, but was thinking the other day... what exactly was a "Gentile" from the context and perspective of the Apostles and the definition of that time period?

[ManOfWord]

A Gentile was/is anyone who was/is not Jewish. That is about as basic as it gets.

A person is Jewish who was born Jewish as defined by his Jewish mother. If the mother was Jewish, the children are Jewish. Other than that, one had to convert to Judaism, which was and is a rare occasion. Anyone else is a Gentile.

[Brad Murphy]

Thanks MOW!

Is there any scripture which encourages gentiles to become Jewish in the NT church? I just don't understand a lot of the "need" that some people have to be more Jewish in custom and culture, etc.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Brad Murphy

Thanks MOW!

Is there any scripture which encourages gentiles to become Jewish in the NT church? I just don't understand a lot of the "need" that some people have to be more Jewish in custom and culture, etc.

These teachings are due to a misunderstanding of the identity of the "True Israel of God."

The identity of the “Israel of God,” begins by realizing that whenever "Jacob" is mentioned in Scripture, he is always referred to by his natural birth name, “Jacob,” and not by the heavenly invoked name, “Israel.” The only time “Israel” is used is when the Bible is speaking of the 'spiritual Israel of God.' Jesus and Jesus alone lived up to the definition of the name "Israel," which is: “HE WILL RULE AS GOD” (See Strong's H3478). Jacob never lived up to that name nor did any of his descendants. Notice in the next scriptures how they all equate out to the same opinion of Jesus being the True Israel of God:

Matthew 2:14-15
(14) When he arose, he took THE YOUNG CHILD and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
(15) And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, OUT OF EGYPT HAVE I CALLED MY SON.

Hosea 11:1
(1) WHEN ISRAEL WAS A CHILD, then I loved him, and CALLED MY SON OUT OF EGYPT.

Exodus 4:22
(22) And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, ISRAEL IS MY SON, EVEN MY FIRSTBORN:

John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Mark 12:6-9
(6) Having yet therefore ONE SON, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.
(7) But those husbandmen said among themselves, THIS IS THE HEIR; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours.
(8 ) And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.
(9) What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? HE WILL COME AND DESTROY THE HUSBANDMEN, AND WILL GIVE THE VINEYARD UNTO OTHERS.

These verses interrelate together showing that the Promised Child was and is Jesus Christ! He is the same promise Paul referred to allegorically in Galatians 3:16 as the One promised SEED of Abraham. Through Jesus, we become partakers of that same promise, and members of the True Israel of God.

Neither the ethnicity of the Jews nor their opportunity to receive salvation through Jesus ended because of the 70 AD destruction. But with this destruction came the elimination of the self-righteous system of Law keeping to which the Jews had fallen prey. Jesus' coming in judgment during that generation – as prophesied – firmly established Him as the King of kings and the Lord of lords who does RULE AS GOD!

An identity crisis comes from a lack of identity in Chirst. Once a person sees that Jesus is the True Israel of God, they can then be set free to pursue Christlikeness. That is what Paul meant by this statement:

Galatians 6:15-16
(15) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
(16) And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

It’s all about being IN JESUS CHRIST! The "rule" to which verse 16 speaks is not about being a Jew (circumcision) or Gentile (uncircumcision), but about being a "New Creature" in Christ! This is speaking of New Covenant, not Old Covenant. Paul is saying that those who walk in THAT rule will have "peace," "mercy." The conjunction "and" tying this to Paul’s "Israel of God," is the Greek work “Kai.” Kai can be translated as "and, also, even, indeed, but" (See G2532). The Amplified Bible uses the word “even” in place of “and” in this verse. This shows Paul is saying that those living by this rule make up those who are the Israel of God.

[Falla39]

Romans 2:28,29 tells who is a Jew under the New Covenant. Circumcision of
the heart. An inward cutting away of the old stony heart. God said He would
give His people a new heart. Under the Old Covenant, it was circumcision out-
ward, in the flesh.The cutting away of the flesh. It was the sign of the men
of God.

Male or female can have new hearts, but a female under the Old Covenant.
was protected by the circumcism of her husband. Now each, male or female
are responsible for their own circumcision of the heart. It is available to all
but we all must submit to our own spiritual circumcision. Obeying the NT Plan
of salvation. In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile,bond or free, male or
female. We can all be made one through Jesus Christ.

We are not saved by being born a Jew by natural birth, but by being born
again by spiritual birth. He/she whom the Son hath set free is free indeed!

Blessings,

Falla39

[ManOfWord]

The church lost its Jewish roots when it left the Synagogue and after the death of the Jewish apostles. Judaism was basically cut out after about 100 yrs. Things changed. The books of the bible no longer had Jewish names, passover was changed to juice and a cracker and most of the other Judaistic celebrations were lost as well.

There are a lot of churches out there who are saying that we MUST return to the ways of Judaism. I think that is incorrect. I think there is MUCH to be gained through an understanding of our Jewish roots, but we don't have to implement those things and certainly not to be saved.

I've studied the Jewish roots of Christianity for over 15 yrs and have found many wonderful things open up in the bible because of it.

I believe that because the church left it's Jewish roots, that the holocaust went basically unchallenged by the Christian church. Christians have basically charged the Jews throughout the centuries as being Christ killers, with Martin Luther and John Chrysostom being the chief leaders of the chant.

[Brad Murphy]

Yeah, I don't see being Jewish as a positive or negative thing... it is kind of like the guys who like to dress up in Civil war garb and go fight on the weekend, not required but if they enjoy it then go for it. I just don't believe there is any requirement for us to become more Jewish to understand Jesus since his ethnicity was Jewish... (as Michlow would say, do women have to become more manly to understand Jesus because he "is" male?)

I do agree that understanding the Jewish culture up until about 100 AD (just picked that date off the top of my head) would help give better understanding to the many cultural references in the Bible.

[Falla39]

Old Covenant-New Covenant (God wrote a new will. No one could be made righteous
under the Old Will/Testament/Covenant. His people/creation could not be saved under
the Law, "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of
a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might
receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit
of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant,
but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.(All one in Christ)!
no jews, gentiles, bond or free, male or female, but one IN CHRIST!

Natural creation in the Old, made new creatures in Christ in the New.
"Therefore, IF any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things
are passed away; behold, all things are become new".

If old/natural men, born under the Old Covenant, can be made new/spiritual
men under the New Covenant, why do we have such a hard time believing
that Old Israel,(chosen men of God) could not become New/True Israel of
God, in and through the man, Christ Jesus, the second Adam.

If God could take dirt and make a man and take a part out of that man,
and make a woman, why can't we believe God could take a virgin, and move
over her and create the second Adam and make a way through his riven side
and take out a church (bride/wife) for His name. A spiritual creation.

First that which is natural and then that which is spiritual, not that which is
spiritual first. (I Cor.15:46,47 paraphased)

Adam's side-Eve, Jesus side-the church. Adam's wife-natural mother, natural
children born through her.
Jesus' wife, the church-spiritual children born through her.

Blessings,

Falla39

[Sister Alvear]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

The church lost its Jewish roots when it left the Synagogue and after the death of the Jewish apostles. Judaism was basically cut out after about 100 yrs. Things changed. The books of the bible no longer had Jewish names, passover was changed to juice and a cracker and most of the other Judaistic celebrations were lost as well.

There are a lot of churches out there who are saying that we MUST return to the ways of Judaism. I think that is incorrect. I think there is MUCH to be gained through an understanding of our Jewish roots, but we don't have to implement those things and certainly not to be saved.

I've studied the Jewish roots of Christianity for over 15 yrs and have found many wonderful things open up in the bible because of it.

I believe that because the church left it's Jewish roots, that the holocaust went basically unchallenged by the Christian church. Christians have basically charged the Jews throughout the centuries as being Christ killers, with Martin Luther and John Chrysostom being the chief leaders of the chant.

I agree I too have studied in depth Judaism and I have been very blessed to learn many new things (not doctrines) but things that help me understand clearer the scriptures...I am very blessed and wish Mow and I could sit down for several hours and compare our notes and things like that.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I agree I too have studied in depth Judaism and I have been very blessed to learn many new things (not doctrines) but things that help me understand clearer the scriptures...I am very blessed and wish Mow and I could sit down for several hours and compare our notes and things like that.

That may happen soon! Baruch Hashem!!!