Ishmael & Isaac...

Rhoni · #1 07-26-2008, 07:55 AM

Last night I lay awake thinking about Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar. When Abraham and Sarah took things into their own hands to 'help God out'...we end up with Hagar's Ismael & Sarah's Isaac duking it out in the middle east for all of time. Was it all in the plan of God? Was it predestination or foreknowledge?

Many things in life I personally consider unfair and unjust...how much of it is our fault and how much of it is in God's plan?

Had God fulfilled his promise to Abraham in a timely way then Abraham and Sarah would not have tried to take matters into their own hands. Do you think that God predestines us to go through things or are we just a bunch of screw-ups?

Just some of the thoughts running around in my exhausted brain.
I'd be interested to know anyone else's thoughts on this matter.

Blessings, Rhoni

#2 07-26-2008, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Last night I lay awake thinking about Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar. When Abraham and Sarah took things into their own hands to 'help God out'...we end up with Hagar's Ismael & Sarah's Isaac duking it out in the middle east for all of time. Was it all in the plan of God? Was it predestination or foreknowledge?

Many things in life I personally consider unfair and unjust...how much of it is our fault and how much of it is in God's plan?

Had God fulfilled his promise to Abraham in a timely way then Abraham and Sarah would not have tried to take matters into their own hands. Do you think that God predestines us to go through things or are we just a bunch of screw-ups?

Just some of the thoughts running around in my exhausted brain.
I'd be interested to know anyone else's thoughts on this matter.

Blessings, Rhoni

Without those two twins.. you would never have Armageddon..... God uses humans to fulfill his perfect plan.. he saw Armageddon before Abranham was ever born

Rhoni · #3 07-26-2008, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

Without those two twins.. you would never have Armageddon..... God uses humans to fulfill his perfect plan.. he saw Armageddon before Abranham was ever born

So they were pre-destined?

#4 07-26-2008, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoni

So they were pre-destined?

Pre-destined by foreknowledge absolutely

Rhoni · #5 07-26-2008, 09:00 AM

We have a thread about pre-destionation and foreknowlege...let's concentrate on whether or not God wants us to wait for his rescue or to help ourselves. Does God set us up by delaying his answers/help? Is it his intention that we get ourselves in a bind that we can't get out of before He will rescue us?

Is it proper to ask God these questions?

#6 07-26-2008, 09:01 AM

then why was this thread created.. if you didn't want to discuss predes?

Rhoni · #7 07-26-2008, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

then why was this thread created.. if you didn't want to discuss predes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoni

We have a thread about pre-destionation and foreknowlege...let's concentrate on whether or not God wants us to wait for his rescue or to help ourselves. Does God set us up by delaying his answers/help? Is it his intention that we get ourselves in a bind that we can't get out of before He will rescue us?

Is it proper to ask God these questions?

Blessings, Rhoni

#8 07-26-2008, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Blessings, Rhoni

I believe if one looks back over their lives.. they will find the answers you are fishing for.... has there ever been one valley he didn't bring you out of in his timing?

AmericanAngel · #9 07-26-2008, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Last night I lay awake thinking about Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar. When Abraham and Sarah took things into their own hands to 'help God out'...we end up with Hagar's Ismael & Sarah's Isaac duking it out in the middle east for all of time. Was it all in the plan of God? Was it predestination or foreknowledge?

Many things in life I personally consider unfair and unjust...how much of it is our fault and how much of it is in God's plan?

Had God fulfilled his promise to Abraham in a timely way then Abraham and Sarah would not have tried to take matters into their own hands. Do you think that God predestines us to go through things or are we just a bunch of screw-ups?

Just some of the thoughts running around in my exhausted brain.
I'd be interested to know anyone else's thoughts on this matter.

Blessings, Rhoni

Free will....Sarah could have just fought her impatence. I think Isaac would have come along alot sooner had she waited, but she "laughed" earlier when the 3 angels visited. I don't think we are a bunch of screw-ups.
You can call it pre-destination if you want to, but God will accomplish what needs to be accomplished. Things could have been different, yet still Ishmael would have been born, or a son from Hagar anyway. Sarah could have passed away at a different time. Lots of different sanarios here.
But, free will is what God gave us.

#10 07-26-2008, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmericanAngel

Free will....Sarah could have just fought her impatence. I think Isaac would have come along alot sooner had she waited, but she "laughed" earlier when the 3 angels visited. I don't think we are a bunch of screw-ups.
You can call it pre-destination if you want to, but God will accomplish what needs to be accomplished. Things could have been different, yet still Ishmael would have been born, or a son from Hagar anyway. Sarah could have passed away at a different time. Lots of different sanarios here.
But, free will is what God gave us.

Does the potter not have Power over the clay?