Tithing vs Almsgiving

[bkstokes]

I was listening to a message of Johnny James the other day. I believe its title was "Almost Right is Always Wrong". It was preached in the late 80s at Grand Valley Apostolic Temple.

In that message he said that Malachi 3 was incorrectly applied to the NT church. James asked, who had every received a monetary blessing that they could not contain? No one. He went on to say that Malachi was talking about receiving so much harvest (literal food) that the Isreal nation could not contain it in their barns.

Thus, he said that tithings basis in the NT rested upon the text in Hebrews.

The question that I have for everyone is this: If we are suppose to tithe under the order of Melkesedek and all believers are priest under the order of Melkesedek should all believers share in the benefits of the tithe?
In Acts they took up money to supply for the widows and orphans. I know that they also took up money so that the Apostles could spend their time in prayer and studying the Word. Nevertheless, it seems that the money of the book of Acts chruch were more distributed than what is distributed today.

[Hoovie]

[Rico]

This is an interesting twist to the tithing debate. What to do with the money? This should be good. SH, save me some of that popcorn!

[Cindy]

Popcorn AND Pepsi!!!!!!!

[Jason B]

tithing is not for the church, the more we explore it, the more inconsistency occurs.

Are there churches that function and sustain their operation without tithing?

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Are there churches that function and sustain their operation without tithing?

Yes there are, most of your "Hard shell" Baptist Churches (there needs to be a distinction made here that these are quite different from the Southern Convention Baptist) do not tithe -- they give alms.

The results of them giving alms is that the pastor of these churches most times lives a more humble lifestyle and they tend to have many little churches spread out instead of the mega church phenomena.

I was thinking about an OT that practice that predates the Law. The practice of making a “vow”. In Genesis 28:18-22 Jacob made a voluntary “vow” unto God stating that he would give a tenth:

Genesis 28:18-22
{28:20} And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will
be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will
give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, {28:21} So that
I come again to my father’s house in peace; then shall the
LORD be my God: {28:22} And this stone, which I have
set [for] a pillar, shall be God’s house: and of all that thou
shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

We also see other vows of offerings and sacrifices in Leviticus 27:9; 10:33. Vows were entirely voluntary but once made were regarded as compulsory (Numbers 30:2; 23:21; Ecclesiastes 5:4). The practice of making a vow unto God continued well into New Testament times, Acts 18:18; 21:24. So here’s something I see as a possibility. I believe that all NT believers should be contributors to their church in some way, rather it be service, money, or both. Perhaps members should be challenged to make a vow to God as to how much or what percentage they will give out of their wages. That way it’s “as a man has purposed in his heart” and it isn’t a set amount that hurts those who can’t afford it. Also the church can forecast financially based on “vows” made. This would also allow for vowing 10% based on Abraham and Jacob’s vows. What are some of your thoughts?

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

I was thinking about an OT that practice that predates the Law. The practice of making a “vow”. In Genesis 28:18-22 Jacob made a voluntary “vow” unto God stating that he would give a tenth:

Genesis 28:18-22
{28:20} And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will
be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will
give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, {28:21} So that
I come again to my father’s house in peace; then shall the
LORD be my God: {28:22} And this stone, which I have
set [for] a pillar, shall be God’s house: and of all that thou
shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

We also see other vows of offerings and sacrifices in Leviticus 27:9; 10:33. Vows were entirely voluntary but once made were regarded as compulsory (Numbers 30:2; 23:21; Ecclesiastes 5:4). The practice of making a vow unto God continued well into New Testament times, Acts 18:18; 21:24. So here’s something I see as a possibility. I believe that all NT believers should be contributors to their church in some way, rather it be service, money, or both. Perhaps members should be challenged to make a vow to God as to how much or what percentage they will give out of their wages. That way it’s “as a man has purposed in his heart” and it isn’t a set amount that hurts those who can’t afford it. Also the church can forecast financially based on “vows” made. This would also allow for vowing 10% based on Abraham and Jacob’s vows. What are some of your thoughts?

Interesting perspective -- I have not heard much teaching about NT saints making vows.

What I see in the books of Acts is a lot of sacrificial giving (people giving more than 10%). I don't think that this takes place in today's church because we have too many preachers living high on the hog. Why is someone going to sacrifice his or her own comfort, so that the Pastor can live in more comfort. In the end, one will always seek to provide more for his or her biological family then for the Pastor and his family.

My point in all this is that in the book of Acts of course the leader elder (what we call the pastor) was supported, but it seems that a greater percentage of the money went to the orphans and the widows (those who could not provide for themselves). Now days we have many social organizations that provide for the needed so maybe we should use the extra money to get the gospel outside our 4 wall buildings.

[bkstokes]

I bumping this thread because I want more people's response.