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Old 04-25-2008, 01:35 PM
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ChristopherHall ChristopherHall is offline
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Thoughts on Prophetic Destiny:

This week I was reminded of an interesting teaching taught by a good preacher friend of mine who now pastors. I thought I’d present it here and see what some of you think. He taught that America, Britain, and Israel are destined to confront the Arab world in a final showdown, and that in fact; this is the grand prophetic drama of history. I want to share what he taught, what are some the implications, and see what you think about it. I used to roll my eyes at it…but recently it’s been on my mind. I want to know some of your thoughts if you don’t mind. Here goes…

According to the Bible Abraham was blessed and God promised that his seed would be a “great and mighty nation” (Genesis 18:18). Abraham has Ishmael and Ishmael is cast out (later believed to have become the Arab peoples). Isaac (the child of promise) is promised by God that his seed will be “as the stars of heaven” (Genesis 26:4). Isaac has Jacob (Israel) and God promises him that his seed will be a “nation & a company of nations” (Genesis 35:11). Jacob (Israel) has six sons with Leah (Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, and Zebulon); with Zelpah Jacob has two sons (Gad & Asher); with Belhah Jacob has two sons (Dan & Naphtali); and with Rachel Jacob has two sons (Joseph & Benjamin). These are the children of Jacob and from them come the twelve tribes of Israel and Levi (the priesthood). However, Joseph has two sons Ephraim and Manasseh. God promises Ephraim that his seed would become a “multitude of nations” and God promises Manasseh that his seed would become a “great people” (Genesis 48:19). When Israel became a divided kingdom under Rehoboam (Solomon’s son) the tribes of Judah, Levi, and Benjamin side with Rehoboam in the South (establishing the House of Judah) and the other ten tribes side with Jeroboam in the North (establishing the House of Israel). Then Israel to the north gets’ conquered by Babylon in the early to mid 700’s BC and the people are put into captivity. Judah is later conquered by the Babylonians and are held in captivity for 70 years. Eventually Babylon is conquered by Persia. Judah (Judah, Levi, and Benjamin) are permitted to return to Judea and become the Jewish nation we see in the New Testament. But the majority of the other ten tribes that were conquered and assimilated…vanished. Never to be seen again.

The question is…what happened to the promises God made to Ephraim (to be a “multitude of nations”) and Manasseh (to be a “great people”)?

Here’s where his belief gets interesting.

He believes that when Babylon was conquered by Persia the majority of the assimilated ten tribes of Israel was among peoples (namely the Sythians) and were forced North West into central Europe and the isles of North West Europe where they continued to be assimilated into the Anglo Saxon and Celtic peoples. With all this assimilation, and their being prone to idolatry, he believes these Israelites lost their godly history, language, and religion. These Israelites became fully integrated into the British, Norse, and Germanic peoples. Ephraim and Manasseh were primarily integrated into the British (English/Irish) people.

He believes that God’s promises to Ephraim and Manasseh are fulfilled in God’s blessings upon the English peoples of the United States (fulfillment of the Ephraim’s promise to become a “multitude of nations”) and Great Britain (Manasseh’s promise to become a “great people”).

That makes the United States, Great Britain, and the modern Jewish state of Israel the descendants of: Ephraim, Manasseh, Judah, Levi, and Benjamin. He believes that if this is true; America, Great Britain, and Israel are all covenant peoples of ancient Israel.

This is why prophetically our destinies are so intertwined with Israel’s existence and we are in constant war and conflict with the descendants of Ishmael and Esau, the Middle Eastern peoples.

This also explains, according to him, why we are a Christian people used as a vessel to spread the gospel throughout the world….

“{11:47} Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees
a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many
miracles. {11:48} If we let him thus alone, all [men] will
believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away
both our place and nation. {11:49} And one of them,
[named] Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said
unto them, Ye know nothing at all, {11:50} Nor consider
that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the
people, and that the whole nation perish not. {11:51} And
this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year,
he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; {11:52}
And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather
together in one the children of God that were scattered
abroad.
{11:53} Then from that day forth they took counsel
together for to put him to death.” - (John 11:47-53)

Soon the Jews of modern Israel will experience revival and the House of Judah (modern Israel) and the House of Israel (America & Great Britain) will be united under the returning Messiah who will sit on the throne of David as our king over the re-established Kingdom of Israel.

What are some implications?

America, Great Britain, and Israel would be covenant people of God who are destined to inherit the earth. Israel’s enemies are essentially our enemies prophetically. This election will most likely be between McCain and Obama. McCain is of Irish/English decent and Obama is of Nigerian Islamic decent. If our brother’s views are correct this election is about two seeds competing for the most powerful office on earth that the Jewsl depend upon as their most powerful ally…the seed of Israel and Ishmael are going to do battle for the White House, and Judah’s fate hangs in the balance.

I found the thought provocative and very interesting.

What are some of your thoughts on this?
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"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11 (English Standard Version)
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  #2  
Old 04-25-2008, 01:41 PM
Eliseus
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Re: Thoughts on Prophetic Destiny:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherHall View Post
This week I was reminded of an interesting teaching taught by a good preacher friend of mine who now pastors. I thought I’d present it here and see what some of you think. He taught that America, Britain, and Israel are destined to confront the Arab world in a final showdown, and that in fact; this is the grand prophetic drama of history. I want to share what he taught, what are some the implications, and see what you think about it. I used to roll my eyes at it…but recently it’s been on my mind. I want to know some of your thoughts if you don’t mind. Here goes…

According to the Bible Abraham was blessed and God promised that his seed would be a “great and mighty nation” (Genesis 18:18). Abraham has Ishmael and Ishmael is cast out (later believed to have become the Arab peoples). Isaac (the child of promise) is promised by God that his seed will be “as the stars of heaven” (Genesis 26:4). Isaac has Jacob (Israel) and God promises him that his seed will be a “nation & a company of nations” (Genesis 35:11). Jacob (Israel) has six sons with Leah (Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, and Zebulon); with Zelpah Jacob has two sons (Gad & Asher); with Belhah Jacob has two sons (Dan & Naphtali); and with Rachel Jacob has two sons (Joseph & Benjamin). These are the children of Jacob and from them come the twelve tribes of Israel and Levi (the priesthood). However, Joseph has two sons Ephraim and Manasseh. God promises Ephraim that his seed would become a “multitude of nations” and God promises Manasseh that his seed would become a “great people” (Genesis 48:19). When Israel became a divided kingdom under Rehoboam (Solomon’s son) the tribes of Judah, Levi, and Benjamin side with Rehoboam in the South (establishing the House of Judah) and the other ten tribes side with Jeroboam in the North (establishing the House of Israel). Then Israel to the north gets’ conquered by Babylon in the early to mid 700’s BC and the people are put into captivity. Judah is later conquered by the Babylonians and are held in captivity for 70 years. Eventually Babylon is conquered by Persia. Judah (Judah, Levi, and Benjamin) are permitted to return to Judea and become the Jewish nation we see in the New Testament. But the majority of the other ten tribes that were conquered and assimilated…vanished. Never to be seen again.

The question is…what happened to the promises God made to Ephraim (to be a “multitude of nations”) and Manasseh (to be a “great people”)?

Here’s where his belief gets interesting.

He believes that when Babylon was conquered by Persia the majority of the assimilated ten tribes of Israel was among peoples (namely the Sythians) and were forced North West into central Europe and the isles of North West Europe where they continued to be assimilated into the Anglo Saxon and Celtic peoples. With all this assimilation, and their being prone to idolatry, he believes these Israelites lost their godly history, language, and religion. These Israelites became fully integrated into the British, Norse, and Germanic peoples. Ephraim and Manasseh were primarily integrated into the British (English/Irish) people.

He believes that God’s promises to Ephraim and Manasseh are fulfilled in God’s blessings upon the English peoples of the United States (fulfillment of the Ephraim’s promise to become a “multitude of nations”) and Great Britain (Manasseh’s promise to become a “great people”).

That makes the United States, Great Britain, and the modern Jewish state of Israel the descendants of: Ephraim, Manasseh, Judah, Levi, and Benjamin. He believes that if this is true; America, Great Britain, and Israel are all covenant peoples of ancient Israel.

This is why prophetically our destinies are so intertwined with Israel’s existence and we are in constant war and conflict with the descendants of Ishmael and Esau, the Middle Eastern peoples.

This also explains, according to him, why we are a Christian people used as a vessel to spread the gospel throughout the world….

“{11:47} Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees
a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many
miracles. {11:48} If we let him thus alone, all [men] will
believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away
both our place and nation. {11:49} And one of them,
[named] Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said
unto them, Ye know nothing at all, {11:50} Nor consider
that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the
people, and that the whole nation perish not. {11:51} And
this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year,
he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; {11:52}
And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather
together in one the children of God that were scattered
abroad.
{11:53} Then from that day forth they took counsel
together for to put him to death.” - (John 11:47-53)

Soon the Jews of modern Israel will experience revival and the House of Judah (modern Israel) and the House of Israel (America & Great Britain) will be united under the returning Messiah who will sit on the throne of David as our king over the re-established Kingdom of Israel.

What are some implications?

America, Great Britain, and Israel would be covenant people of God who are destined to inherit the earth. Israel’s enemies are essentially our enemies prophetically. This election will most likely be between McCain and Obama. McCain is of Irish/English decent and Obama is of Nigerian Islamic decent. If our brother’s views are correct this election is about two seeds competing for the most powerful office on earth that Israel depends upon as her most powerful ally…the seed of Israel and Ishmael are going to do battle for the White House, and Judah’s fate hangs in the balance.

I found the thought provocative and very interesting.

What are some of your thoughts on this?

He;s close, but I don't necessarily agree that England has to be identified with Manassah and the US with Ephraim. What the Bible identifies as 'nations' are not always what we today identify as 'nations' or countries.

England, by the way, or more specifically Great Britain, is composed of several 'nations' - Scots, Welsh/Cambrians/Cymbri, Britons, Picts, Saxons, Angles, Normans/Norsemen/Vikings, and so forth.

Also, I would not be so quick to identify the modern nation of Israel or the people known as 'Jews' with the House of Judah, since the Israelis/Jews are actually more of a culture united by religion than ancestry. (See The 13th Tribe by Arthur Koessler for example.)

But he is pretty close. I have a commentary on Revelation by an ALJC minister that pretty much espouses the same basic view as what you have presented here.
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Old 04-25-2008, 01:43 PM
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Truthseeker Truthseeker is offline
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Re: Thoughts on Prophetic Destiny:

Eph 2:13-16

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
KJV
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Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.


The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
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Old 04-25-2008, 01:45 PM
Eliseus
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Re: Thoughts on Prophetic Destiny:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherHall View Post
This election will most likely be between McCain and Obama. McCain is of Irish/English decent and Obama is of Nigerian Islamic decent. If our brother’s views are correct this election is about two seeds competing for the most powerful office on earth that Israel depends upon as her most powerful ally…the seed of Israel and Ishmael are going to do battle for the White House, and Judah’s fate hangs in the balance.

I found the thought provocative and very interesting.

What are some of your thoughts on this?
This part about Obama and McCain though I disagree with. Nigerian descent has nothing to do with Ishmael or Jacob/Israel. Obama does not claim to be a Muslim, and although he clearly has a Muslim name I haven't seen any evidence he is Islamic himself.

To claim that two candidates, one of whom is 'Israelite' and the other is non Israelite, says nothing whatsoever about their qualifications for being a leader. As far as I am concerned, McCain is a socialist/statist just like Obama, and that rules both of them out in my opinion.

By the way, I do hear tell that Obama is actually distantly related to the royal family of Britain... but then so is Hillary... And McCain, I believe, is not... and you know what they say - every president we've had has been a relative of the royal family, or something like that...
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Old 04-25-2008, 02:15 PM
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ChristopherHall ChristopherHall is offline
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Re: Thoughts on Prophetic Destiny:

Good points all.

As for McCain and Obama…I can see the point of Obama not necessarily being Arab (Ishmaelite). But I think there’s a strong possibility seeing that the Arab Muslim peoples who conquered North Africa for centuries, mingled with them, and taught them their language, religion, and culture.

Anyone know for certain what ancestry his father has? I know the family names are Muslim.
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"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11 (English Standard Version)
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Old 04-25-2008, 03:07 PM
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ChristopherHall ChristopherHall is offline
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Re: Thoughts on Prophetic Destiny:

But ultimately...do you guys think there is any truth to Western nations (namely America and Great Britain) being decendants of Ephraim and/or Manasseh?
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"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11 (English Standard Version)
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Old 04-25-2008, 03:22 PM
Eliseus
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Re: Thoughts on Prophetic Destiny:

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Originally Posted by ChristopherHall View Post
But ultimately...do you guys think there is any truth to Western nations (namely America and Great Britain) being decendants of Ephraim and/or Manasseh?
Absolutely. I wouldn't limit it to just two tribes, however. My personal belief is that America is a regathering of all twelve tribes.
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