Political: Moderate, Centrist, and Progressive Thread

[ChristopherHall]

With all the threads supporting right-wing politics and politically conservative notions I thought it would be only fair to step up to the plate and create a thread where those few who are politically moderate, centrist, or progressive can feel free to talk about politics and political developments. Sure, our conservative brothers and sisters are welcome here, but this is a place were we can talk about the issues, our opinions, and the role of our Christian faith in progressive and centrist politics.

What are some of your thoughts on the political developments in Iowa?

[LordChocolate]

I am politically on the RIGHT. I did not come on this thread to fight. However, I do have one question, how is it possible for a Christian to support a candidate that is pro abortion?

[nathan_slatter]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

With all the threads supporting right-wing politics and politically conservative notions I thought it would be only fair to step up to the plate and create a thread where those few who are politically moderate, centrist, or progressive can feel free to talk about politics and political developments. Sure, our conservative brothers and sisters are welcome here, but this is a place were we can talk about the issues, our opinions, and the role of our Christian faith in progressive and centrist politics.

What are some of your thoughts on the political developments in Iowa?

I think I'll vote for Obama before I'll vote for Huckabee. And if Hilary is on the ticket -- I'll vote 3rd party. Truth be told I'm hoping Ron Paul wins the nomination.

[bishopnl]

I think the term "progressive" is just double speak for liberal. And there's nothing progressive about liberalism. And neither is there any room for Christianity in liberalism. It's all about replacing God ordained roles with government ordained ones. In the church of liberalism, government is god.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by bishopnl

I think the term "progressive" is just double speak for liberal. And there's nothing progressive about liberalism. And neither is there any room for Christianity in liberalism. It's all about replacing God ordained roles with government ordained ones. In the church of liberalism, government is god.

Call it for what it really is.

It is a call for Socialism in Amerika.

Anyone recall 1968 and how that helped the Czech populace?

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by nathan_slatter

I think I'll vote for Obama before I'll vote for Huckabee. And if Hilary is on the ticket -- I'll vote 3rd party. Truth be told I'm hoping Ron Paul wins the nomination.

Nate, my friend, while I wont challenge you at all on who you vote for, Ive gotta hear the reasoning behind swinging from Ron Paul to Barak Obama.

clearly their positions on the issues (with the exception of extracting ourselves from Iraq) are as divergent as can possibly be.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by LordChocolate

I am politically on the RIGHT. I did not come on this thread to fight. However, I do have one question, how is it possible for a Christian to support a candidate that is pro abortion?

Great question bro, can you find a "Pro-Abortion" candidate?

There is a difference between Pro-Choice and Pro-Abortion. One can believe abortion is absolutely wrong, a terrible moral evil, but not believe that it’s the role of Government to address it. For example, let’s say we ban abortion today. If a woman procures an abortion tomorrow what will be the penalty? If we classify it as murder we must try her and any assisting medical professional with murder. Sentence them to execution or life in prison. But that will not fly. So we suggest taking the license of a doctor (most abortionists aren’t licensed) and fine a woman. Great, life is reduced to the value of a parking ticket or moving violation. Anything short of trying her and the medical professional with first degree murder is an injustice. Or…we can look at the situation as the SCOTUS has. It’s primarily an issue the government isn’t tasked to address. It’s a grave social evil but there isn’t a political answer.

Find me a politician that believes women who procure abortion should be tried for murder and I’ll consider it. Until then, it’s an issue that doesn’t have a political answer.

Another way to look at it is to compare it to the rest of the world. Belgium is a very pro-choice liberal nation but has had one of the lowest (if not the lowest) abortion rate in the world. Chile serves as a good example of a nation that had some very strict abortion law. Their abortion rate was one of the highest in the world.

Those were just examples. There are many more. Why is it that so many liberal pro-choice nations have lower abortion rates than nearly every deeply conservative pro-life nation?

Well think about this…in Belgium child care is subsidized, national health insurance, struggling single mothers can receive assistance with paying rent and utilities. Women know they can raise a child well. In America a young woman has a crisis pregnancy or an unexpected pregnancy doesn’t know where help will come from. And frankly, there isn’t much help out there. How will she get health insurance for her and her child? Afford child care? Keep her job? It’s all very terrifying for those women in those circumstances. So they give in to fear and choose to abort. The CDC reported that 2 out of every 3 abortions in the US were procured by women living under poverty level who stated economic hardship was the primary reason for seeking abortion. Frankly, Satan convinced them to abort because there isn’t a family friendly social infrastructure in the US like there is in Belgium. That’s why our abortion rate is nearly triple that found in Belgium. Progressives often see the issue of abortion as the byproduct of non-progressive social policy. They intend to reduce abortion by addressing the needs and issues that women face (health care, child care, education, living wage, and job security).

Besides, most Republican politicians don’t care a bit about abortion. They want to keep the issue alive to manipulate our religious values to corner us into voting for them. Frankly, like good capitalists…they’re capitalizing on the issue of abortion and playing lip service to the Pro-Life position.

It’s an issue that isn’t going away. Address the issues women face and do more than moralize. That will reduce the rate of abortion and save lives. That's the progressive approach. It's working in other countries...it can work here too. We just have to have the will to do it. Or we can argue over it for another thirty years while abortion rates stay where they are or go higher.

Lastly, they'll never tell you this...but the Democrats submitted a plan aimed at reducing the abortion rate in the United States by 95% in 10% known as the 95-10 Initiative. The Republican congress locked arms with leftwing Pro-Choice Democrats and sidelined it.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by bishopnl

I think the term "progressive" is just double speak for liberal. And there's nothing progressive about liberalism. And neither is there any room for Christianity in liberalism. It's all about replacing God ordained roles with government ordained ones. In the church of liberalism, government is god.

Let me educate you then bro. LOL

A progressive is more centrist and favors a mixed economy. A liberal is closer to socialist.

And as for Government...like marriage...it's an institution ordained by God, read Romans 13.

[ChristopherHall]

I love ya too Ferd. LOL I think it takes both sides to meet in the middle. An extreme in either direction would be bad for the nation.

[bishopnl]

Or…we can look at the situation as the SCOTUS has. It’s primarily an issue the government isn’t tasked to address.

Chris, I'm sorry, but that's not the position SCOTUS took. To say so either means you don't know what position SCOTUS takes, or you are willing to obfuscate their position.

The fact is, SCOTUS's position is that abortion, under the Constitution, is a right PROTECTED by the government. Prior to Roe v. Wade, state governments had the power to ban abortion...prior to Connecticut v. Griswold, even the "right to privacy" wasn't protected by the Constitution. The fact is that Roe v. Wade simply said that if state governments were going to ban abortion, then the federal government was going to PROTECT it. It took a heretofore unrecognized right and placed it under the protection of the Constitution.

And further, liberal candidates may say they are "pro-choice"...but the fact that federal funds go to abortion advocacy groups shows that they don't have any problem with the federal government interfering in the issue of abortion....just not limiting it.