Definitions of Ethical Seem to Differ???

revrandy · #1 12-20-2007, 02:57 PM

As a Pastor how Ethical am I?

You could ask what my neighboring pastors might think of me??

But does their opinion of me count??

It seems that farther folks are away from where I am located it may count me as ethical...but what do my neighboring pastors say?

Interesting to think about...

Carpenter · #2 12-20-2007, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revrandy

As a Pastor how Ethical am I?

You could ask what my neighboring pastors might think of me??

But does their opinion of me count??

It seems that farther folks are away from where I am located it may count me as ethical...but what do my neighboring pastors say?

Interesting to think about...

Sure it is interesting, however what transcends the ethical aspect is the circle of friends, good old boys club, peer group motivation, and reputation aspect.

You know as well as I that when a smaller pastor is in the presence of greatness, those pastors who have achieved much, authored books, national speakers, built churches of hundreds, etc., the small pastor is not very inclined to express his opinion, especially when his opinion runs aground of the men he likes to be associated with! It is all part of making a name...and for what? So he can have the chance to preach a big revival, etc?

RevRandy? Ethical? It may only matter to his church and maybe...just maybe to his district, but more importantly, who are his friends nationally, THEN I will be able to tell you where he stands.

revrandy · #3 12-20-2007, 06:09 PM

Friends are nothing when it comes to ethics at times....

It's those who aren't your friends that count.... when they say..

"There is an ethical man"......it shows true character but when those around

you in close proximity say..."There is nothing ethical about this man"...than that speaks loudly...

Ethics seems to be based at times on perception and not truth..

The truth will always win out though...

Carpenter · #4 12-20-2007, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revrandy

Friends are nothing when it comes to ethics at times....

It's those who aren't your friends that count.... when they say..

"There is an ethical man"......it shows true character but when those around

you in close proximity say..."There is nothing ethical about this man"...than that speaks loudly...

Ethics seems to be based at times on perception and not truth..

The truth will always win out though...

This is an interesting concept but difficult to discuss in the abstract because it can be so broad.

I know men who associate with like beliefs (go figure) within the UPC, libs, mods, UCs, and around these groups are the second tier of hangers on. It doesn't really matter if the big guys say or do something that could be conceived to be non-sin, but definitely unethical, or downright mean, and because the association is so important everyone will, if not agree, turn a blind eye.

So what is worse, the attitude of those who will be held less accountable because there isn't very much opposition (lest it be crushed), and maybe little to lose, or those smaller guys who allow stuff to go on because it will help their ministerial careers?

revrandy · #5 12-20-2007, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carpenter

This is an interesting concept but difficult to discuss in the abstract because it can be so broad.

I know men who associate with like beliefs (go figure) within the UPC, libs, mods, UCs, and around these groups are the second tier of hangers on. It doesn't really matter if the big guys say or do something that could be conceived to be non-sin, but definitely unethical, or downright mean, and because the association is so important everyone will, if not agree, turn a blind eye.

So what is worse, the attitude of those who will be held less accountable because there isn't very much opposition (lest it be crushed), and maybe little to lose, or those smaller guys who allow stuff to go on because it will help their ministerial careers?

One thing to note is everything is recorded in Heaven.... considering the "high road" which seems to be considered by some here on AFF an unlevel playing field in the arena of opinions it won't matter....

Ethics are important....Ethical men are needed....and unethical folks might shine bright for awhile but the light soon fades....

that being said accusing one of being unethical is certainly a mine feild of opinion and perception....and like you said very abstract...

Carpenter · #6 12-20-2007, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revrandy

One thing to note is everything is recorded in Heaven.... considering the "high road" which seems to be considered by some here on AFF an unlevel playing field in the arena of opinions it won't matter....

Ethics are important....Ethical men are needed....and unethical folks might shine bright for awhile but the light soon fades....

that being said accusing one of being unethical is certainly a mine feild of opinion and perception....and like you said very abstract...

Here's one for you, you be the judge.

I have a friend, former friend actually, who is a licensed minister. His father was very wealthy in Arkansas and subsequenly allowed this individual to particpate in the growth of his business.

The guy moves here and his step father is a tenured dean at the DU School of business. The step father gets this guy into the MBA program at Denver University, helps him write a portfolio to get into the program, and the kicker?...this guy has less than 2 undergraduate college courses.

He did well under the tutlidge of his step father and graduated with an MBA. This (I have to keep from calling him names)...person now has DU license plates, wears DU shirts, brags constantly and makes sure he signs his name...John Jingleheimer, MBA. Not to mention, he is a narcissistic and...well sans the bad names.

Is what he did or the way he worked the system or the way he promotes himself unethical?

I think the guy is a fraud and I know how difficult it was and how dilligently I worked to get my undergrad degree.

revrandy · #7 12-20-2007, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Here's one for you, you be the judge.

I have a friend, former friend actually, who is a licensed minister. His father was very wealthy in Arkansas and subsequenly allowed this individual to particpate in the growth of his business.

The guy moves here and his step father is a tenured dean at the DU School of business. The step father gets this guy into the MBA program at Denver University, helps him write a portfolio to get into the program, and the kicker?...this guy has less than 2 undergraduate college courses.

He did well under the tutlidge of his step father and graduated with an MBA. This (I have to keep from calling him names)...person now has DU license plates, wears DU shirts, brags constantly and makes sure he signs his name...John Jingleheimer, MBA. Not to mention, he is a narcissistic and...well sans the bad names.

Is what he did or the way he worked the system or the way he promotes himself unethical?

I think the guy is a fraud and I know how difficult it was and how dilligently I worked to get my undergrad degree.

If the same oppurtunity to advance was afforded you would you take it?

Carpenter · #8 12-21-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revrandy

If the same oppurtunity to advance was afforded you would you take it?

Absolutely not, but then again, I have my degree. I would feel like a total fraud and my educational credentials would be empty...it is kind of like cheating at internet scrabble, you aren't really coming up with those 7 letter words, yet you are able to smoke your oponent.

revrandy · #9 12-21-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Absolutely not, but then again, I have my degree. I would feel like a total fraud and my educational credentials would be empty...it is kind of like cheating at internet scrabble, you aren't really coming up with those 7 letter words, yet you are able to smoke your oponent.

The real question I think is that we would like to say we wouldn't...but unless we have stepped into the situation it might be different...

Ethics are extremely important yet not all ethical men are "successful"... but that is only temporal... "Success" on earth is not the definition of Success in the Heavenly...

Often times ethics are simply situational...and yet concrete because they represent the truth about a man...

Character defines Ethics... the real test is when those around you in close proximity can say ..."There is a Ethical Man"....

Some who are defined as Ethical at a distance are not that way up close...

OneAccord · #10 12-21-2007, 03:09 PM

Ive heard it said that our reputation is how others see us. Our Character is how we are when no one is looking. Or something like that.

Jesus didn't spend alot of time admonishing us to guard our reputation. In fact, He made it clear that we would be persecuted, spoken evil of and defamed. What He dioes encourage us to do, is to maintain a healthy and unspotted Character. When our reputation is tarnished by those who dislike us, we lose nothing but a little bit of our pride. When we lose our character...then we've lost it all.

And you know, our reputation can be harmed by others. But our character, how we really are, can only be harmed by ourselves.