Circumcision as relates to Water Baptism

[RevDWW]

Could it be that Abe was not circumcised when God called him out of Ur, because God had not commanded it yet as part of the covenant?

Genesis 17:2 - Genesis 17:14 (KJV)
1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. 2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. 3And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. 5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. 6And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. 9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. 10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. 11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. 12And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. 13He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Acts 7:2 - Acts 7:8 (KJV) 2And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran, 3And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall show thee. 4Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell. 5And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child. 6And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years. 7And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place. 8And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.

Once given the commandment that it was necessary for the covenant did Abe wait around to circumsice Isaac?

Genesis 21:2 - Genesis 21:4 (KJV) 1And the LORD visited Sarah as he had said, and the LORD did unto Sarah as he had spoken. 2For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him. 3And Abraham called the name of his son that was born unto him, whom Sarah bare to him, Isaac. 4And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac being eight days old, as God had commanded him.

Should anyone part take of the Passover supper without circumcision?

Exodus 12:43 - Exodus 12:50 (KJV) 43And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof: 44But every man’s servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof. 45A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof. 46In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof. 47All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. 48And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. 49One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. 50Thus did all the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.

Right after passing through the Jordan the Lord gave Josh instruction he needed to carry out. Do you see and correlation between a physical circumcision after coming out of the water and the spiritual circumsion wrough in water baptism?

Joshua 5:2 - Joshua 5:12 (KJV)
1And it came to pass, when all the kings of the Amorites, which were on the side of Jordan westward, and all the kings of the Canaanites, which were by the sea, heard that the LORD had dried up the waters of Jordan from before the children of Israel, until we were passed over, that their heart melted, neither was there spirit in them any more, because of the children of Israel. 2At that time the LORD said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the second time. 3And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins. 4And this is the cause why Joshua did circumcise: All the people that came out of Egypt, that were males, even all the men of war, died in the wilderness by the way, after they came out of Egypt. 5Now all the people that came out were circumcised: but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had not circumcised. 6For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people that were men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the LORD: unto whom the LORD sware that he would not show them the land, which the LORD sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey. 7And their children, whom he raised up in their stead, them Joshua circumcised: for they were uncircumcised, because they had not circumcised them by the way. 8And it came to pass, when they had done circumcising all the people, that they abode in their places in the camp, till they were whole. 9And the LORD said unto Joshua, This day have I rolled away the reproach of Egypt from off you. Wherefore the name of the place is called Gilgal unto this day.
10And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal, and kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the month at even in the plains of Jericho. 11And they did eat of the old corn of the land on the morrow after the passover, unleavened cakes, and parched corn in the selfsame day. 12And the manna ceased on the morrow after they had eaten of the old corn of the land; neither had the children of Israel manna any more; but they did eat of the fruit of the land of Canaan that year.

[RevDWW]

When does spiritual circumcision take place? Is it when one believes? Is at repentance? Does one need to be baptized in water for this to take place?

Colossians 2:4 - Colossians 2:15 (KJV)
4And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. 5For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

[RevDWW]

Ok, All you logical thinkers, pony up and let's reason together.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Ok, All you logical thinkers, pony up and let's reason together.

Many see baptism in the NT as a replacement for circumcision in the OT. That is why they practice infant baptism. Just as the Jewish folks were commanded to circumcise their children shortly after birth and then train them in the Law, folks now baptize their babies' shortly after birth and then train them in the teachings of the NT.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Sam

Many see baptism in the NT as a replacement for circumcision in the OT. That is why they practice infant baptism. Just as the Jewish folks were commanded to circumcise their children shortly after birth and then train them in the Law, folks now baptize their babies' shortly after birth and then train them in the teachings of the NT.

While many might see it that way, I can not find a instance in the bible where an infant was baptized. It would seem the message is repent and be baptized. How can an infant repent?

[Beard]

By baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, the body of sin is destroyed by the spiritual operation of God circumcising or cutting off the body of sin that was held in the heart/spirit of a person.

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Romans 2:28,29).

[RevDWW]

Bump for DA!

[RevDWW]

Will no one attempt to answer my questions? DA?

[Beard]

I'm not DA, but water baptism is necessary for the circumcision of the heart. Repentance is at the Brazen Altar, Water Baptism at the Laver, then one enters in through the vail into the sanctuary or Holy Place....repentance is to salvation, not to repented of...an opinion...

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Beard

I'm not DA, but water baptism is necessary for the circumcision of the heart. Repentance is at the Brazen Altar, Water Baptism at the Laver, then one enters in through the vail into the sanctuary or Holy Place....repentance is to salvation, not to repented of...an opinion...

The laver was not a one time experience. The laver was used over and over to remove defilement. Using it as a type of baptism is, in my opinion, a little bit of a stretch.

A couple of other thoughts about the brazen altar.

Even though dimensions are not given for all of the furniture, it is thought that they all would fit within the brazen altar. If the brazen altar typifies repentance, this would show the importance of real repentance.

One time when an Apostolic pastor was talking to me, he took a piece of paper (I think it was a napkin but I'm not sure now) and drew a little diagram of the tabernacle. He showed the outer fence and the gate. Just inside the gate was the brazen altar. Then he showed the laver and the tent of meeting. He pointed to the whole tabernacle and said, "If this tabernacle represents Christ, and this altar represents repentance, anyone who comes to this altar is in the tabernacle or in Christ."