If You Are A Disciple

votivesoul · #1 09-12-2021, 01:58 AM

John 17:15 (NASB),

15. I am not asking You to take them out of the world, but to keep them away from the evil one.

This verse is contained with a larger section of verses in which the Lord Jesus is praying to His Father about His disciples and the role that they will have in bringing the church into the world after Jesus departs from them into the heavens.

The phrase "I am not asking You..." contains the verb erótaó, meaning "to ask". Here, the verb is conjugated in the present active indicative form, meaning what Jesus is asking the Father is something which reveals Christ's desire for His disciples. It is not a one time asking, but an active asking, always in the present, always in the "now" of each and every moment.

In a different verse earlier in the Gospel of John, concerning the Father, Jesus states "You always hear Me" (John 11:42).

From this we can correctly acknowledge that as the Son of the Father, Jesus knows perfectly and fully that whatsoever things He prays to God, the Father will indeed do, so that the Son may be honored and glorified in the same way the Father is Himself honored and glorified (John 5:23 and John 14:13).

And, from that, we can correctly acknowledge that, in John 17:15, the Father heard the Son and acquiesced to the Son's request to not take His disciples out of the world. But, and since, the prayer request is an active asking, always in the present, always in the "now" of each and every moment, it was not a mere one and done request, but a continual, constant request with a continual and constant response from the Father, in the affirmative.

Which means what?

That it was never, and so, never is, the desire of the Lord Jesus, or of the Father of the Lord Jesus, to take His disciples out of the world.

Rather, that on account of His disciples, the world, through Jesus, might be saved (John 3:17 with John 17:20).

Are you a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ? If so, then it is not the desire of the Lord Jesus, or of the Father of the Lord Jesus, to take you out of the world.

Rather, that on account of you, the world, through Jesus, might be saved.

If you are a disciple.

Tikkun Olam 2021, brothers and sisters.

Esaias · #2 09-12-2021, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul

John 17:15 (NASB),

15. I am not asking You to take them out of the world, but to keep them away from the evil one.

This verse is contained with a larger section of verses in which the Lord Jesus is praying to His Father about His disciples and the role that they will have in bringing the church into the world after Jesus departs from them into the heavens.

The phrase "I am not asking You..." contains the verb erótaó, meaning "to ask". Here, the verb is conjugated in the present active indicative form, meaning what Jesus is asking the Father is something which reveals Christ's desire for His disciples. It is not a one time asking, but an active asking, always in the present, always in the "now" of each and every moment.

In a different verse earlier in the Gospel of John, concerning the Father, Jesus states "You always hear Me" (John 11:42).

From this we can correctly acknowledge that as the Son of the Father, Jesus knows perfectly and fully that whatsoever things He prays to God, the Father will indeed do, so that the Son may be honored and glorified in the same way the Father is Himself honored and glorified (John 5:23 and John 14:13).

And, from that, we can correctly acknowledge that, in John 17:15, the Father heard the Son and acquiesced to the Son's request to not take His disciples out of the world. But, and since, the prayer request is an active asking, always in the present, always in the "now" of each and every moment, it was not a mere one and done request, but a continual, constant request with a continual and constant response from the Father, in the affirmative.

Which means what?

That it was never, and so, never is, the desire of the Lord Jesus, or of the Father of the Lord Jesus, to take His disciples out of the world.

Rather, that on account of His disciples, the world, through Jesus, might be saved (John 3:17 with John 17:20).

Are you a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ? If so, then it is not the desire of the Lord Jesus, or of the Father of the Lord Jesus, to take you of the world.

Rather, that on account of you, the world, through Jesus, might be saved.

If you are a disciple.

Tikkun Olam 2021, brothers and sisters.

And thus, the rapture cult is clearly heretical and of the devil.

votivesoul · #3 09-13-2021, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

And thus, the rapture cult is clearly heretical and of the devil.

Clearly so.

The church needs healing from false teaching if we are going to reconcile the world back unto God, through Christ Jesus our Lord.

votivesoul · #4 09-13-2021, 03:38 AM

You may look at the state and condition of the world right now, and say it's all going, or even has already gone, to hell.

If so, it is good that the world is so going, or has already gone.

Why?

Because the gates of hell cannot prevail against the Church.

God so loved the world...

Time to shine, brothers and sisters.

Tikkun Olam 2021.

diakonos · #5 09-13-2021, 10:59 AM

The gates of hell?? The grave??

diakonos · #6 09-13-2021, 10:59 AM

The gates of Sheol, or the gates of hades?

coksiw · #7 09-13-2021, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diakonos

The gates of hell?? The grave??

Does Satan and his demons come out of hell? There is no Scripture I can think of. As far as I know, hell is a prison-like place, not Satan's headquarters.

votivesoul · #8 09-14-2021, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diakonos

The gates of hell?? The grave??

Quote:

Originally Posted by diakonos

The gates of Sheol, or the gates of hades?

Yes, correct.

Matthew 16:18 uses the Greek word hades, commonly translated as "hell" throughout the New Testament (one of three such Greek words so translated, the others being gehenna and tartaroo, and yes, it means the grave, or place of the dead, and corresponds to the Hebrew term sheol.

Matthew 16:18 (NASB),

Quote:

18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

So, when I say the world has gone, or is going, to hell, I do mean it with that understanding. That is, the world, is dead, or is dying. Take your pick.

1 Corinthians 7:31 (NASB),

Quote:

... for the present form of this world is passing away.

So, the church has an opportunity here, because the gates of hades cannot prevail against the church, meaning the church has the power and ability to bust down the walls, as it were, that keep people locked up in their spiritual graves:

John 5:21-25 (NASB),

Quote:

21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. 22 For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, 23 so that all will honor the Son just as they honor the Father. The one who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. 25 Truly, truly, I say to you, a time is coming and even now has arrived, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

The voice of the Son is supposed to be heard, in the world, through us.

God manifests His logos through preaching (Titus 1:3). The Logos Made Flesh abides in the Body and speaks through the Apostles and Prophets, that is, the foundation of New Jerusalem.

If that Body will rally around Christ and become one with Him as He is one with the Father, then the world will know that God truly sent His Son into the world to save it.

The church world needs repair and restoration so that it can complete her mission.

votivesoul · #9 09-14-2021, 03:27 AM

1 John 2:15-17 (NASB),

Quote:

15 Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. 17 The world is passing away and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God continues to live forever.

Loving the world in its present and past condition means you are content to let it burn and boil and be overcome by its own wickedness, all the way to the Lake of Fire.

Loving the world as it might become, that is, loving the world the way God loved and loves the world, so much that He gave His only begotten Son's life for it, that it might be saved, is the first step toward repairing it and bringing it into the New Covenant of restoration with God.

You are the Light of this World, dear brothers and sisters.

You can make a difference.

Tikkun Olam 2021.

jediwill83 · #10 09-14-2021, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul

1 John 2:15-17 (NASB),

Loving the world in its present and past condition means you are content to let it burn and boil and be overcome by its own wickedness, all the way to the Lake of Fire.

Loving the world as it might become, that is, loving the world the way God loved and loves the world, so much that He gave His only begotten Son's life for it, that it might be saved, is the first step toward repairing it and bringing it into the New Covenant of restoration with God.

You are the Light of this World, dear brothers and sisters.

You can make a difference.

Tikkun Olam 2021.

Its the Abraham VS Jonah mentality.

The first optimistically tries to stave off judgement by looking for the righteous....the second wishes to leverage the judgement of God against a city he hates by running from his obligation to preach repentence.

I wonder what the Churches "Great Fish" course correction is gonna look like.