Altering the need for the altar...

[agoodlife2live]

My question this week is:

What is "repentance”?

I recently heard a man preach that religion has perverted the true power of the cross, and the truth is that Christ has defeated sin “once and for all”.

Along with his exhortation of the one-time sacrifice of sin, he said, “repentance is to be done only once”. After that, you simply follow the Holy Ghost, and if you feel guilty doing something then simply “stop it”. Guilt comes only because you are not following in obedience to your Holy Ghost, and all it takes is obedience to correct the problem and remove the guilt.

In this message, he mentioned that he has "passed beyond the barrier of temptation", because he passed the tests, and "Just said No!”.
"Does repentance require anything more than the resolute mind, to be free from sin, or is it enough to just walk away and just stop-it"?

[votivesoul]

Repentance, by the Greek definition, is to rethink, reconsider, to analyze again, and etc.

If the Holy Spirit brings convictions upon a person for sinning, then the likelihood is that person, in the process of coming under conviction, took the time to rethink, reconsider, and analyze again their ways and what they were doing.

This suggests a life of continual repentance, not just a one and done deal.

[agoodlife2live]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Repentance, by the Greek definition, is to rethink, reconsider, to analyze again, and etc.

If the Holy Spirit brings convictions upon a person for sinning, then the likelihood is that person, in the process of coming under conviction, took the time to rethink, reconsider, and analyze again their ways and what they were doing.

This suggests a life of continual repentance, not just a one and done deal.

Thank you for your comment. I have not thought about it that way, but it makes sense to me

[Esther]

Originally Posted by agoodlife2live

My question this week is:

What is "repentance”?

I recently heard a man preach that religion has perverted the true power of the cross, and the truth is that Christ has defeated sin “once and for all”.

Along with his exhortation of the one-time sacrifice of sin, he said, “repentance is to be done only once”. After that, you simply follow the Holy Ghost, and if you feel guilty doing something then simply “stop it”. Guilt comes only because you are not following in obedience to your Holy Ghost, and all it takes is obedience to correct the problem and remove the guilt.

In this message, he mentioned that he has "passed beyond the barrier of temptation", because he passed the tests, and "Just said No!”.
"Does repentance require anything more than the resolute mind, to be free from sin, or is it enough to just walk away and just stop-it"?

Basicaly repentance means about face. Or turn around and go the opposite way.

I think one country still uses that term when marching. They say repent, we say about face.

As to the message of only need to repent once is deceived. Every time you sin you need to repent.

[agoodlife2live]

Originally Posted by Esther

Basicaly repentance means about face. Or turn around and go the opposite way.

I think one country still uses that term when marching. They say repent, we say about face.

As to the message of only need to repent once is deceived. Every time you sin you need to repent.

With the repentance is contrition and confession to God still required? or is turning around from sin with a made up mind enough?

[Esther]

Originally Posted by agoodlife2live

With the repentance is contrition and confession to God still required? or is turning around from sin with a made up mind enough?

Needs both, IMO

[Esaias]

How can a person sin, and then repent, and NOT have felt contrition, and NOT have confessed it to God?

God dwells with the contrite heart - that means a heart under contrition.

The problem is, we have substituted emotional catharsis at an altar rail in place of genuine repentance. Thus, we have opened the door for new johnny-come-lately 'alternatives' to what we THOUGHT was 'old fashioned repentance'.

The confusion just rolls on, from one generation to the next. I think Hosea had something to say about that - 'because you have forsaken my law, I will forget your children'... or something like that...

[votivesoul]

There is something to be said of the words in Malachi 2:13,

13. And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the Lord with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand.

People want a clean conscience, but don't want what it takes to keep a clean conscience. They feel remorse and sorrow, but have no sense of the injustice against God for their sins, especially after they've walked in His light and partaken of the heavenly gift of His Spirit.

Repentance is supposed to, among other things, bring about zeal and vengeance.

[KeptByTheWord]

This topic of repentance, and altar calls reminds me of this verse in James,

James 1

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.


Repentance is not repentance if you simply recognize you have done wrong, but no action follows.

II Cor. 7:10 "For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."

So, in essence, repentance is not repentance unless it is accompanied with action. If you feel sorrow, and remorse for your deeds, but do not take action to turn from them, you have not repented.

This is why "working up emotion" in an altar call setting many times is fruitless, because people come to the call, feel sorry, but take no further action, believing that all they need to do is feel sorry for their actions. If they are not taught that unless their sorrow is accompanied with action that brings about change in their life, then repentance will not have taken place. They essentially have beheld their face in the mirror, saw things they didn't like, but instead of allowing the spirit of the Lord to change them and cause them to TURN AWAY from their sins... they turn away from that mirror, and comfort themselves that as long as they felt sorry, repentance took place, when in fact.... repentance without ACTION is not repentance.

James 1:22-25 needs to be understood in much greater depth when the gospel is being presented, and altar calls are being presented.

When one comes face to face with a holy God, recognizing, acknowledging, and repenting of the depth of sin present in one's life, it is only then, with this realization that the Lord can allow His spirit to truly reside in that heart, and bring about the change that needs to take place.

[agoodlife2live]

So, repentance (e.g. change of mind), followed by the right actions, to "go and sin no more", is enough. No real need for an altar, no need for the grace of God, no need for mercy. But now I can just simply sin until I feel really guilty, then I simply stop sinning, and live as if I never sinned at all. To me this sounds like “self-justification” - Considering that “justification” of sins through the blood means, 'God sees that person clean, just as if they never sinned'.

My question remains, “where is the blood applied in this scenario”? When did God recognize that person as being reconciled to Himself again? Is there no need to seek out forgiveness for sin committed against a Holy God, simply because through the power of the mind you stopped doing whatever it was that you felt guilty of doing (repented)?

I guess that I cannot reconcile to my mind, how one can repent, yet not seek the forgiveness and reconciliation to God, at an altar (where ever that maybe). I have always thought the tears I cried on the altar were not so much as “feeling” bad for sinning as much as my plea to God of my need and desire for His Spirit to renew right thinking and right actions in my life through the leading of the Holy Ghost. Did not David in Psalms 51 set a beautiful example of a souls appeal to God for forgiveness? I have always felt that Psalm would have been written after David felt conviction and then he displayed a mind change, by first and foremost seeking forgiveness.

In short I always thought:
Repentance (change of mind) + seeking Forgiveness = Reconciliation to God & a renewing of the Holy Ghost, which empowers one to "go and sin no more"

While the new presentation of repentance is:
Almost the same, except it eliminates the need for God to forgive the sinner. Saying Repentance (change of mind) + Right actions = forgiveness and reconciliation