Was it necessary to repeal DADT?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Bravo!

I admire your approach and your transparency in sharing it with us.

Admittedly, I am not that much of a soul winner. God help me!

I try to be a witness Hoovie, but don't misunderstand me, I often feel like I have as many converts as Jermiah. Please don't beat yourself up on my account.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Azzan

Thank you, Jason, for your answer. I'd like to follow up with one more based upon your response to Dan's question. Did I understand you to say that you would (or might) end a friendship with someone claiming to be a Christian while still embracing their sin?

Yes, and let me explain that. [Though I haven't interacted with you, I am under the understanding that you yourself are gay, with some chrisitan background, correct? I saw the welcome Azzan thread, but only read a couple of posts. That is my impression, and it may be wrong-either way, I am just answering you in the same way I would anyone else, please keep that in mind, I dont seek to offend or hurt you, but neither am I going to lessen up my stance so as not to tell the truth.]

Yes, I would probably end a friendship with someone, or more ACCURATELY stated would cut fellowship ties with them. That is not to say I wouldn't be friendly if we crossed paths, or that I wouldn't have compassion on them in times of their need, or that i would actively wish any evil on them.


But if I knew of someone who felt like they needed no repentance for active homosexuality, and believed that they were right with God in that current state, and refused to hear anything else, but flaunted that lifestyle as "liberty" (I am alluding to such an organization as Metropolitan Communtiy Church, and similar doctrines), then I would certainly cut fellowship with them.

HOWEVER, considered themself a christian, but perhaps backslidden, and confused or struggling, I would in no wise end a fellowship, but seek to help such a one be restored in the spirit of meekness, considering my own weakness and frailty (Galatians 6:1).

Hope that helps, I appreciate your questions, if I can answer anything else, I would be glad to.

PS-I don't claim to handle all of these situations the right way. To this point I've seemed to do well, but I'm not saying I'm an authority on "how to" just sharing my opinions here on these types of scenarios.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

when I get a chance we can talk.

Most people are clueless what the word ministry stands for.

The most holy person in the church is very likely not the one standing behind the pulpit. And yes I preach this at my church.

Pastoring is but one of a plethora of ministries, and preaching is actually a very small part of pastoring.

The rabbis taught he who makes a miracle possible is greater than he who performs the miracle.

PS-Hoovie, you ARE a witness, your witness has gone into millions of homes through the integrity you and you wife had on the reality show. The fact that God placed you in such a position and strengthened you to keep your witness (when TV would have loved failure), and gave you favor in the final edit, is a tremendous blessing, the effects of which you may never know.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by notofworks

When I was first discovering Willow Creek, I checked out their "Ministries" tab and scrolled through the list, which seemed endless. I happened upon something that looked totally out of place and it was called "Hair Dressers." So I read a bit about it and ended up calling the church because I was so intrigued.

To bottom line it....The Hair Dressers Ministry is open to all Hair Dressers at Willow Creek. They meet bi-monthly and study, pray, and ask God for inspiration, creativity and an open door to use their hair dressing chairs as a place for sharing the love of Christ. In effect, they seek to use the scissors, hair dryers, and hair coloring as a pulpit to preach the love of Christ.

So everyday they walk into their shops, they open the door and ask God to open conversational doors so that Jesus can be shared.

They also had a similar group for table servers, golfers, nurses, doctors, etc. What an incredible insight to ministry and using whatever is in our hands for the express purpose of sharing Christ.

I like this idea.

[Azzan]

Jason, thanks again for your answer. Yes, I am gay and I do have a UPCI background. I've provided some details about myself in previous posts on the first DADT thread.

Speaking from my perspective, I think you have a good approach. I think you and Mr Smith are not that far apart really.

[MrMasterMind]

Originally Posted by Azzan

Jason, thanks again for your answer. Yes, I am gay and I do have a UPCI background. I've provided some details about myself in previous posts on the first DADT thread.

Speaking from my perspective, I think you have a good approach. I think you and Mr Smith are not that far apart really.

And yet the small differences are telling. Jason is a fine young man who has proven his mettle under fire, and remained gracious under the circumstances.

He is also lightyears ahead in understanding over most UPCI ministers as far as tolerance.

There remains one small thing of which I doubt even he is aware. In reading posts to you (not about you) there is still the slightest air of condescension. Like the woman he knows to be a lesbian but is nice to her anyway for the last two years.

The fact that his interaction is totally dependent on how far along they are in accepting the gospel.

True love loves. It does not overlook, it does not fail to preach/teach the gospel. But it is not conditional either. "Loving" the unsaved as a means to get them to church is not the fullness of agape.

I am glad Jesus never approached me that way.

Another problem with it... who knows the heart. Just because their lips denounce does not mean their heart is not seeking and exploring. Perhaps they are just noting your reaction to see if you pull back.

Not meaning as criticisms as much as Selah.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by MrMasterMind

And yet the small differences are telling. Jason is a fine young man who has proven his mettle under fire, and remained gracious under the circumstances.

He is also lightyears ahead in understanding over most UPCI ministers as far as tolerance.

There remains one small thing of which I doubt even he is aware. In reading posts to you (not about you) there is still the slightest air of condescension. Like the woman he knows to be a lesbian but is nice to her anyway for the last two years.

The fact that his interaction is totally dependent on how far along they are in accepting the gospel.

True love loves. It does not overlook, it does not fail to preach/teach the gospel. But it is not conditional either. "Loving" the unsaved as a means to get them to church is not the fullness of agape.

I am glad Jesus never approached me that way.

Another problem with it... who knows the heart. Just because their lips denounce does not mean their heart is not seeking and exploring. Perhaps they are just noting your reaction to see if you pull back.

Not meaning as criticisms as much as Selah.

Nailed it ....

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by MrMasterMind

And yet the small differences are telling. Jason is a fine young man who has proven his mettle under fire, and remained gracious under the circumstances.

He is also lightyears ahead in understanding over most UPCI ministers as far as tolerance.

There remains one small thing of which I doubt even he is aware. In reading posts to you (not about you) there is still the slightest air of condescension. Like the woman he knows to be a lesbian but is nice to her anyway for the last two years.

The fact that his interaction is totally dependent on how far along they are in accepting the gospel.

True love loves. It does not overlook, it does not fail to preach/teach the gospel. But it is not conditional either. "Loving" the unsaved as a means to get them to church is not the fullness of agape.

I am glad Jesus never approached me that way.

Another problem with it... who knows the heart. Just because their lips denounce does not mean their heart is not seeking and exploring. Perhaps they are just noting your reaction to see if you pull back.

Not meaning as criticisms as much as Selah.

Is there a difference between those who have always been unsaved and those who were once saved and have turned away?
By difference, I mean is there a difference in how we treat/interact with them.

[MrMasterMind]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Is there a difference between those who have always been unsaved and those who were once saved and have turned away?
By difference, I mean is there a difference in how we treat/interact with them.

Generally speaking no.

[MrMasterMind]

Originally Posted by notofworks

When I was first discovering Willow Creek, I checked out their "Ministries" tab and scrolled through the list, which seemed endless. I happened upon something that looked totally out of place and it was called "Hair Dressers." So I read a bit about it and ended up calling the church because I was so intrigued.

To bottom line it....The Hair Dressers Ministry is open to all Hair Dressers at Willow Creek. They meet bi-monthly and study, pray, and ask God for inspiration, creativity and an open door to use their hair dressing chairs as a place for sharing the love of Christ. In effect, they seek to use the scissors, hair dryers, and hair coloring as a pulpit to preach the love of Christ.

So everyday they walk into their shops, they open the door and ask God to open conversational doors so that Jesus can be shared.

They also had a similar group for table servers, golfers, nurses, doctors, etc. What an incredible insight to ministry and using whatever is in our hands for the express purpose of sharing Christ.

There are also means of practical application.

Hair dressers that visit women who are in hospice or long term hospital and do free makeover.

Men mechanically inclined offering occasional free oil changes to the elderly at the church property.

Businessmen mentoring inner city youth on how to start a business.

Religion pure and undefiled. Love and kindness without expectation of return.

Not using as opportunities to pass out tracts.

They will sense when it is TOTALLY altruistic and respond.

But even if they don't, do it simply because it is the right thing to do.