for goodness sake, why can't you just celebrate the new born king
NEW BORN KING? NEW BORN?
So you believe that Jesus becomes a baby every winter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by StMark
and forget about what the world thinks or does.
Sorry, I like the look of relief on people's faces when I tell them the truth.
What about the other Roman Catholic holidays that celebrate Jesus' life?
Why don't you keep those? Oh, maybe because you weren't trained to accept them as legitimate. Is that pavlov's bell I hear?
Quote:
Originally Posted by StMark
We had a packed house today 800-900 people simply because we put the word out to the community that we were having a Christmas service.
Hey Mark, you like a good news flash, right? Well, here is one.
The ROMAN CATHOLICS WILL TOP THAT THIS YEARS AS WELL AS THE EASTERN ORTHODOX AND SOUTHERN BAPTISTS.
Try doing that every week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StMark
There was nothing pagan about the service in fact, we had a good old fashioned holy ghost time in the lord with shouting, rejoicing and the alters packed with sinners.
Great, how many were baptized and prayed through to the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues?
Quote:
Originally Posted by StMark
The people in the community respected the season that we honored christ the Lord
Do you mean reason?
__________________ "Nikita Khruschev said, "the living will envy the dead," why are so many people bent on surviving a nuclear war?
So you believe that Jesus becomes a baby every winter?
Of course not. We celebrate what took place- God became flesh and dwelt amongst us. Does anyone become a baby everytime they celebrate their birthday
Sorry, I like the look of relief on people's faces when I tell them the truth.
What about the other Roman Catholic holidays that celebrate Jesus' life?
Why don't you keep those? Oh, maybe because you weren't trained to accept them as legitimate. Is that pavlov's bell I hear?
RCC does not own the rights to when or how we celebrate the birth of christ. Most protastant religions acknowledge the birth of Christ it doesn't make them catholic anymore then it does us. We're not bound to adhere to the way catholics do things just because we both celebrate the birth of christ
Hey Mark, you like a good news flash, right? Well, here is one.
The ROMAN CATHOLICS WILL TOP THAT THIS YEARS AS WELL AS THE EASTERN ORTHODOX AND SOUTHERN BAPTISTS.
Try doing that every week
We're not trying to compete with them. Their people come and leave. We do everything we can everything we can to make contacts, win souls etc with those that come.
Great, how many were baptized and prayed through to the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues?
The main issue is not about recoginizing he was born but why all the pagan trappings to do so? Doesn't that mean anything? or can we just pick any old custom to honor Christ with?
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.
The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
Ok, are you saying that we can adapt parts of other religions into Christianity? Can you show me that in the Bible?
Running sacred? How about NO NEED TO APPLY.
Do you also celebrate The Epiphany, on January 6th?
Do you see ny problem with someone praying the rosary or the Station of the Cross?
Do you dress up for church?
Do you see any problem with steeples?
Do you center the congregation on a "pulpit"?
Do you give an "altar call"?
Do you tithe?
Do you preach a "sermon"?
Do you use "grape juice" for communion instead of real wine?
Do you use a "wafer" instead of real unleavened bread for communion?
...the list could go on and on.
All of the things and practices listed above are not of Christian origin.
Now, in regards to Christmas and holiday customs, I look at them kind of like this, David took Goliath's sword and placed it in the Temple to give God glory. We've taken what was the enemy's and we're using it to draw the world's attention to Christ.
As for the "Christmas tree" and other "customs", I see it as ethnic and cultural customs. Kind of like music. Most instruments used in today's worship aren't "biblical". They are cultural. We use them in the West because these are our instruments. If we lived in Africa, we'd wear African garb and use African insturments. My previous pastor was once given a wooden statue of a "spirit warrior" by a tribal chieftan from Africa. The chieftan explained that my previous pastor was a "spirit warrior" and that this statue embodied his passion for God. My pastor kept it and cherished it to his dying day.
Some things are just cultural. I'm Dutch, Irish, English, and German. I'm proud of my heritage and maintain my European cultural identity. I'm not in on this "war against white European identity" garbage that wants to erase anything European from our culture. For me the war you're waging is not just about "paganism" but it's an effort to erase cultural identity. I'm European, always have been...always will be. And you can live with it or die with it on your mind.
What some folks do with the time God gives them is sinful, while there are others who take the time that God gives them and dedicates it back to their Creator.
That is how I see Christmas.
Using the same concept, I don't have a problem with Christian Rock, Christian Rap, and etc.
Amen. Bro. EB obviously wants to surrender December 25th to Satan. I say take it back and give it to Christ.
If a priest of the goddess Cybele was alive today he would tell you that your pine tree and colored pine cones represented the god Attis, the consort of Cybele. If the Apostle Paul were alive he would tell you that he was afraid of you because he had bestowed upon you his labor in vain.
You've got to be joking. lol
If a priest of the goddess Cybele was alive today they'd be upset that I'm not worshiping the tree and they would be upset that I'm desecrating it with a manger scene and Christian decorations. They'd be highly upset. Paul, being Jewish would just write me off as a flaking Gentile convert who loves his cultural heritage and was using elements of my culture to glorify Christ and direct attention to him.
Paul once pointed out the altar to the "Unknown God" and used their customary altar to point to Christ. I'm just using a few ancient European items to do the same. The Christmas tree is a pine what can withstand all of winter's fury. Our faith in Christ should withstand all the weather of life's circumstances. I can preach from a tree, nature preaches it's own sermons sometimes.
Paul wouldn't see anything wrong with eating meat sacrificed to idols. But, if you're so weak that it would offend you, Paul would ask that I not eat meat around you. So if you were visiting my home this Christmas I'd not decorate so as to not offend your sensibilities.
In your post you are saying that YOU dedicate "the" day, and YOU make up the holiday to reverence God. You see that has nothing to do with anyone else on the planet. It's all about you, and what you decide, it has nothing to do with my family or myself. Making up holy days and sacraments has been going on for hundreds of years. It's nothing new. Isn't it amazing how some individuals will ball and sqawl that standards are unbiblical, will turn right around and defend some Catholic holiday like they were defending Truth?
Glad you were not offended.
My intention is not to offend, just trying to make it as plain as possible.
The church has authority to bind and loose on earth. If the church wishes to set aside a day of rememberance it has full authority to do so. We are not at the mercy of circumstance, we have dominion.
Some believe it was set aside by the early church based on the ancient Jewish belief of integral age and remained even after the debate on Easter's date.
Other's believe that the early church chose the date because it was a pagan holiday in an attempt to "Christianize" a pagan European culture.
Yet others believe it was a "conspiracy" to paganize Christianity with a pagan holiday that was popular at the time.
There were many Mother Son religions that had a god that once a year became a baby. Semiramis queen of Babylon was dipicted as a mother with her son Tammuz. The son, was believed to be the incarnation of Nimrod.
The Gospel is about the DEATH, BURIAL AND RESURRECTION.
Every year the different Christian sects return to their Mother to celebrate the Mass.
2Co 11:1-4
"Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."
EB... you might be suprised at the fact that at one time there was only one religion on earth after the flood, the true faith in the true God. Now after nations settled in various areas many of these people's adopted traditions and ways that were speculation, rebellion, or occultic, we identify these customs as paganism today. Nearly every pagan religion has a virgin mother who gives birth to a savior god. Why? This is because this ancient prophecy can be traced back to the original story of a deliverer most likely passed down from Noah. (Every pagan religion has a flood story too by the way, again pointing to the truth that there was indeed a global flood.) We see shadows of the truth in these ancient stories but this was actually fulfilled in Christ Jesus. There are "elements" of truth in some of paganism's ways but it takes a degree of wisdom and sound knowledge to sift through it. For example missionaries working in tribal reigions where animal sacrifice for the atonement of sin was prevalent pointed out to the tribal members how this goes back to the most ancient of times and in fact pointed to a savior... then these missionaries showed the tribal people that the promised savior was Jesus Christ. The common thread flowing through nearly every ancient religion on earth...blood atonement.
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