I wish we (humanity) could get to the place where everyone can speak their opinions, without fear of any repercussions. As for this issue in particular, I wish everyone could live their lives according to their own convictions, considering others' views, and let God decide how to deal with each life. There are some things that need to be in the law books (theft, murder, etc.), and some that should not.
Hmm, that would seem to be taking advantage of Grace, to me,
but I don't have to suffer your consequences, which I don't believe Grace
would allow one to escape. I don't think Christ meant "forget the Law," but
"fulfill the Law," which to me means me, fulfilling the Law, and applying Grace to anyone who may not.
Jesus didn't come to abolish the law.... Jesus came to fulfill it himself. Thus, he has fulfilled all it's requirements for me, stood in my place as a transgressor, and died on my behalf, nailing both the law and my sin to his cross.
The law hasn't been abolished. It still stands to condemn mankind. However, it's been fulfilled by Christ on the behalf of the believer. The law's purpose is to reveal to the unbeliever that is being drawn by God that they are hopelessly condemned and are in need of a Saviour. The law essentially corners all men to accept Christ or perish. That's why Paul stated that those who seek to be justified by the law have fallen from grace. They are trying to live by a system that is designed only to condemn.
Now, for many Christians the idea that the law has been fulfilled on our behalf causes them to assume that they can live any ol' way. Wrong. God's desire for the born again believer is that they be conformed into the image and likeness of Jesus. Now we don't live by the law to please God... we seek to walk in the Spirit, manifesting Christ in us, to please God. Christ explained that the whole of the law rests on two eternal principles... Love God and demonstrate that love by loving one's neighbour as one's self. We are called to love unconditionally and to be like Christ. Christ's righteousness is higher than the law's. The law is a weak and beggardly thing. It's insufficient in creating Christ in us. Only the Spirit of grace and truth can do that. Therefore, I am elevated above the law in Christ. Through the Holy Ghost I am one spirit with the Father through Christ. I am a living expression and extention of Christ Himself, he being the Vine, I being the branch. A spiritual state of being that is higher and holier than the law could ever make me. Essentially, through Christ, I have partaken in the divine nature and have sinless perfection flowing through my spirit, though I am still trapped in fallen flesh and feel it's desires. I Corinthians 6:17 reveals that we are one spirit with the Lord through the Holy Ghost. When I received the Holy Ghost I received the reality that the Father is in Jesus, Jesus is in the Father, and Jesus is now in me. I am crucified with Christ, and yet I live. Not I, but Christ who actually lives and breathes within me. I must daily put on the identity of Christ Himself, put on the mind of Christ, reckon myself crucified, and see myself as the actual body of... Jesus walking the earth today. No law can produce this oneness... and no law can bring the righteous perfection that now flows through my spirit. I have the one who gave the law residing in my being, my spirit, my inner man. Now am I a son of God.
So, the law adds nadda to me. I am simply called to live in accordance to the new inner nature I have residing in me through the Holy Ghost. When I don't act in accordance to that nature I feel shame, conviction, sorrow, and condemnation. The answer is "repentance", the act of bringing myself back into alignment with the Spirit within that I might "image" Jesus in my person and my life. Essentially, this is about being one with God through Christ Jesus, by the indwelling power and nature of the Spirit. It's about "being" something supernatural in Christ... not "doing" things to please God. So the bar is infinitely higher than the silly little laws given to Israel. I have the power to bless a ham sandwich and eat it. I have the authority to work on the Sabbath, it was made for man under the OT, not man for the Sabbath. I have the power to bind demons, and I have the power to speak God's grace and forgiveness into the lives of repentant seekers. Like Christ, the born again believer is a representative of God, divinity residing in their humanity. The very same Spirit that flowed through Christ without measure flows through us without measure and is revealed and manifest in accordance to our faith. I'm called to reckon myself dead and crucified... and reckon Christ to be alive in me by the power of His resurrection.
I'm still trapped in this sinful flesh. And sometimes it does get the best of me if I have not put on the mind of Christ. However, one day, the trumpet shall sound and I will be raised incorruptible. Perfect, in Christ. I shall be... like Him. Glorified. This is the holiness promised by grace. Those who think that grace allows one to live any ol' way are not seeing the other side of the transformation grace provides. And here's the danger... while being conformed into the image and likeness of Jesus is a lifetime's journey... one can fail to produce any fruit... and they will find themselves severed from the Vine (Jesus). The fruit of the Spirit are not adherence to archaic and arbitrary standards and laws. It's essentially elements of a transformed character. They are:
love
joy
peace
longsuffering
gentleness
goodness
faith
meekness
temperance
So... grace promises a righteousness higher than the righteousness provided by the law... grace promises the very righteousness of God Himself. If I reduced myself to living by those little laws given to Israel... I'd only be conformed into the image and ancient Israel. I'm called to live by the Spirit and be conformed into the image and likeness of Christ...who is God. God manifest in full humanity. A proto-type of what I am called to be.
Quote:
I'm still working out whether I should help you with your clogged arteries, lol.
I guess so...
Legalism = Believing that you are justified and sanctified by what you "do".
Grace = Believing that you are justified and sanctified by what you "be".
The legalist will list all the things that they believe we are to DO to be Holy.
The grace walking Christian will emphasize that we are called to BE conformed into the image and likeness of Jesus, manifesting His own person and character in our own persons to be Holy.
The Legalist's standard: Tables of Stone
The Grace Walking Christian's standard: Jesus
To live by the Law of Moses will fashion you into the image and likeness of ancient Israel.
To live by a denomination's set of rules will fashion you into the image of that denomination.
To live by a church or pastor's set of rules will fashion you into the image of that church or pastor.
Living with Jesus as your standard will conform you into the image and likeness of... Jesus himself.
There is a BIG difference. Grace doesn't allow one to live any ol' way. It does allow for the journey that brings one into Christlikeness to begin.
this is what we discussed in a bible study last night
Sanctification is being conformd into the image and likeness of Jesus. Compare JESUS to all those things you fear. He's the standard.
You seem to think there are a list of rules. And your list will differ from everyone elses. It's arbitrary and subjective. Some guys will tell you that you can't eat ham sandwiches and that you have to worship on Sunday. Others will say that isn't true. You can't pick and choose from the Law. You have to take it as a WHOLE or let it rest, nailed to the cross.
Now... Jesus is our righteousness. Our life. Our sanctification. The Father's will for EVERY born again believer is that we be conformed into the image and likeness of Jesus. Jesus therefore becomes the standard. If something wouldn't reflect Christ's own person, character, and/or nature... we do well to avoid it. Thus, all those things you freaked out about are resolved in the light of who Jesus is. That's what we are called to "be". Now... Jesus gave us two core commandments that are essentially one commandment. These commandments are what we are to "do" while we are "being". Jesus stated that we are to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength... and that we are to love our neighbour as ourselves. Paul wrote,
Romans 13:9
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
So, if we're living to be conformed into Christ's image and we are seeking to demonstrate our love for God through our love for others... we have a superior spiritual position. Why? Because no "standard" or silly law given to Israel can produce in me a righteousness greater than that found in Christ Himself. And while I might be able to keep all those little laws... it doesn't mean I've fulfilled the law of Christ. For example, I might refrain from murdering or stealing from my neighbour... but it doesn't mean that I love him/her. However, if I love him/her... I'll not be found wanting to kill them or steal from them.
So... Jesus and love trumps every possible law you could require of me. I've already been raised by Christ above it all. To start living by some silly list of rules or standards would be LOWERING my standard... not raising it.
Notice the highlighted part.
How do you know what would reflect Christ's person and nature if you don't pay attention to the Law, which already told us what God likes and dislikes?
The subject of sanctification isn't lost on me at all. I understand clearly that it isn't about how good I can be. My righteousness is filthy. However, I also understand that BECAUSE I AM His, I should strive to be holy and perfect. He already justified me by faith, but my response to His love should be that I now give my life to HIm and seek to please Him. That includes living as He would have me live. It includes the "do's and don'ts" that you apparently feel don't matter anymore.
The Legalist is wrong by pretending that they can earn salvation, or justify themselves. The other end of the pendulum is those who think taht since they are already justified, and no longer under the fulfileld law, that they can just toss out the Law that defines what God likes and hates and make up their own "sanctification" along the way. All they are doing is trampling the blood of God under foot like it is worthless.
Part of loving my wife is choosing to not do the things that I know she hates. I can say it's all about just getting closer to her and reflecting her love and that rules don't matter, but the reality is that my not doing those things that upset her (following the rules) DEMONSTRATES my love and concern for what pleases her.
Hmm, that would seem to be taking advantage of Grace, to me,
but I don't have to suffer your consequences, which I don't believe Grace
would allow one to escape. I don't think Christ meant "forget the Law," but
"fulfill the Law," which to me means me, fulfilling the Law, and applying Grace to anyone who may not.
I'm still working out whether I should help you with your clogged arteries, lol.
I guess so...
you cannot fullfill the law, you already broke it. The law has done condemed you to death. How can you ever full fill it? That is why we fullfill the rightous requirments in Christ.
There is no way you can live a perfect life, sorry.... only one made did it i still dont see how he did it but he did. as for me, you and the rest of humanity we failed and the law was there to point its finger and say DEATH!!!
The only way to appease the Law is to die. This is where Christ comes in. He died For you, For me, For them etc. So death was appeased.
That is why Paul says the Line we are Buried with Christ in baptism. We are now dead to the Law. Death cannot rise up again and say O you sinned again DEATH!!!
no the punishment has already been paid in full.
one needs to understand Grace, understand chastisment, and understand that there is a difference between them and a liscense to sin. Those people who say such thing and use grace in such away probably are not saved to begin with cause any child of God doesnt like sin even though we still do it, we choose not to live in carnality
Amen. I'm finding it hard to buy that Christ ate pork,
for instance, just because He could. We know His
garment was of one cloth, unseamed. Etc.
Jesus was a jew, who lived under the law. He did everything according to the law. he did its customs and obeyed the Torah. If God said dont eat pig he never touched it. The Harsh reality is that Jesus came for the Jews.
While he walked This earth his whole ministry was Devoted to reach the jews.
matthew 15
22And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
His earthly ministry was all about the law, and to full fill it. It would not be till after His ressurection that The jews would be sent out to preach outside of Israel
as the gentiles started to grow in faith Judiazers came into to tell them faith was not enough you needed the law of moses.
However according to acts 15 The apostles laid down the rules stating we do not ned to bring this yoke of bondage on them, cause we cant even bare it, so let them sustain from sexual immorality, idols and blood of strangled animals.
this is really the fundamentals of laying down the do's or donts. Has nothing to do with pork today but under the law of moses you was defiled.
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